Moosaa’s Mountain Out of Bilal’s Molehill

(PDF Version)

The praise is for Allah, and it is sufficed. May peace be upon His slaves who He has chosen. As for what follows …

I recently received an email from the TROID mailing list with a link to an article on their site titled, Errors in the Writings of Bilal Philips: The One who Commits Suicide… .[1] Its origin is a post on the salafitalk.net discussion forum written by Moosaa Richardson, which he says will be the first in a series of articles “clarifying some of the more dangerous of [Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips’s] mistakes … .”[2] After reading the beginning of Moosaa’s article, I couldn’t help but laugh. Not only were Moosaa’s claims unfounded based on the evidence he brings forward, but the article is yet another example of the extent to which these brothers will go in order to criticize and defame others. As has become commonplace with these brothers, Moosaa reads into things what just isn’t there and makes a mountain out of a molehill; Bilal Philips himself commented on the article saying it’s “[a] classic case of ‘statements out of context’, choosing the ‘worst possible meaning’ and ‘putting words in people’s mouths’ which the Western media is famous for.”[3]

The focus of Moosaa’s criticism is a quote taken from Bilal’s Islamic Studies Book 3, in which Moosaa claims that Bilal

contradicts the belief of Ahlus-Sunnah and supports the belief of the Khawaarij and the Mu’tazilah: that the one who commmits suicide is a kaafir who will remain in the Hellfire forever.  They are harsh and go overboard (ghuluww) with regards to the texts warning of punishment.  Ahlus-Sunnah are balanced and take positions based on all texts combined.[4]

He quotes Bilal Philips as saying,

…Suicide has been classified as haram (forbidden) in Islam.  In fact, the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) himself informed us that one who kills himself will find himself in the Hell-fire forever, killing himself over and over again in the same way that he did in this life.(2)  The one who commits suicide implies by his act that Allah has unjustly burdened him beyond his God-given abilities, and such a concept is, in reality, equivalent to kufr (disbelief)…[5]

Contrary to what Moosaa seems to think, there is absolutely nothing factually wrong with this statement from Bilal, especially given the fact that he’s merely repeating what Prophet Muhammad, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, said in the hadîth, but it’s with respect to this quote that he sets up his straw man argument in order to build his case against Bilal, which should be plainly evident looking at the two statements just quoted.

In his subsequent post, Moosaa acknowledges his straw man argument in a meagre attempt to clarify things for his readers stating that he has “received numerous emails alerting [him] that there was no takfeer of someone who commits suicide in Dr. Philips’ words, only a ‘concept equivilent to kufr’ but no mention of him being outside Islaam.” He then thanks those who emailed him and apologizes “for not making that issue clearer in the original article”. He quotes Bilal again highlighting another point of contention, this time, it’s where Bilal states that the one who commits suicide will find himself in the Fire forever.[6] He proceeds to mention many of the objections he’s received to his initial post regarding this supposed mistake of Bilal’s and says that he’d like to keep the discussion open with these “reactions” (as he calls them) and will “try to clear up some of the confusion that produced [them].”[7] He then makes the assertion that “[t]his discussion is only for people seeking academic clarifications, not emotional rants,” that he, “can not[sic] do anything for someone blinded by their attachment to personalities except ask Allaah to remove that trial from his way.”[8]

There are so many things one can say about the many flaws and holes in Moosaa’s posts to this discussion, but that’s not what I wish to focus on; in addition to Moosaa’s straw man argument, Bilal has already pointed out a few of the mistakes and fallacies that Moosaa made in the comments section to one of his blog posts.[9] I also don’t really want to focus on what the correct view is regarding the one who commits suicide as I haven’t really looked too deeply into it to be able to confidently determine such. What I do wish to focus on, however, is related to the last statement of Moosaa’s I’ve quoted regarding academic clarifications, as Moosaa is only giving his readers and followers a tiny fraction of the whole picture, which is poor research and ignorance at best … and at worst, intellectual and academic dishonesty; and as the saying goes, the sweetest of the two is still bitter.

Let’s begin our look at Moosaa’s skewed presentation of this issue by taking a look at the hadîth Bilal alludes to in the quote brought by Moosaa. Abū Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reports that Allah’s messenger, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, said,

«Whoever fell off from a mountain and killed himself, then he is in the fire of Hell, perpetually falling in it, abiding in it forever. Whoever slurped up poison and killed himself, then his poison is in his hand, perpetually slurping it up in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever. Whoever killed himself with an iron tool, then his iron tool is in his hand, perpetually bringing it to his stomach in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever.»[10]

The hadîth has a few different wordings[11] and has been mentioned by many scholars in their discussions regarding suicide, including Imam Shams ad-Dîn adh-Dhahabî, may Allah have mercy on him, in his well renowned book, al-Kabâ’ir.[12] Moosaa claims that the interpretation of this hadîth presented by Bilal is false and that the meaning of “perpetually [killing one’s self] in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever” doesn’t mean what the wording implies, but that it merely means “for an extremely long period of time, but not forever, as understood by the scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah … .” Moosaa’s claim here is a perfect example where he doesn’t give his readers a fuller picture of the issue.

In his explanation of the meaning of the Prophet’s statement, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, «then he is perpetually [killing himself] in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever», Imam an-Nawawî, may Allah have mercy on him, states,

[Several] statements were said regarding it. The first of them is that it is taken [to mean that] whoever did that, legalizing it despite his knowledge of its forbiddance, then this one is a disbeliever and this is his penalty. The second is that the desired [meaning] of perpetuity is a long period of time and a lengthy stay, not true permanence, just like it is said Allah made the sultan’s dominion everlasting. The third is that this is his reward, but He, glorified and exalted is He, was generous and informed that whoever died a Muslim will not abide in the Fire.[13]

Imam Ibn Hajar al-‘Asqalânî mentions several statements from the People of the Sunnah regarding the desired meaning of this statement from Prophet Muḥammad, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, in his Fat·h al-Bârî.  In explaining Imam al-Bukhârî’s chapter “What Has Come Regarding the Killer of the Soul”, he mentions that

the compiler[14] mentioned three hadîths in the chapter.[15] The first of them is the hadîth of Thâbit bin adDahhâk regarding someone who killed himself with an iron tool, and the words regarding it will come in full in [my explanation of the chapter on] oaths and vows […] .

The second of them is the hadîth of Jundub, i.e., Ibn ‘Abdillah al-Bajalî […] the beginning of which contains, «There was a man among those who came before you.» In it, he said, «he became anxious, so he took a knife and cut his hand; the blood did not cease flowing until he died,» and the words regarding it will come in full there[16] and I have not come across the naming of this man.

The third of them is the hadîth of Abî Hurairah in raised form,[17] «The one who strangles himself will strangle [himself] in the Fire and the one who stabs [himself] will stab [himself] in the Fire» and from this aspect, it is one of al-Bukhârî’s unique [narrations]. He has also published it [in an] extended [version] in the [chapter on] medicine from the route of al-A’mash from Abî Sâlih, from Abî Hurairah.[18] Muslim published it from that aspect and it does not contain the mention of strangling. In terms of addition, it contains mention of poison and other [things]; its wording is, «then he is perpetually [killing himself] in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever.» The Mu’tazilah and others, from those who speak of the perpetual [residence] in the Fire of the companions of disobedient acts, have clung to it.

The People of the Sunnah replied to that with [several] answers. From them is having doubts about this addtion. After publishing it, at-Tirmidhî said Muhammad bin ‘Ajlân narrated it from Sa’îd al-Maqburî, from Abî Hurairah and he did not mention «perpetually abiding». Abuz-Zinâd narrated it in this manner from al-A’raj, from Abî Hurairah alluding to the chapter’s narration. He said it is more correct, because the narrations were authentic in that the people of monotheism will be punished, then removed from it and not [perpetually] reside in it.

Others replied by taking [it to mean that] whoever regarded it lawful, then surely, with his legalizing it he becomes a disbeliever, and the disbeliever abides [in the Fire perpetually] without doubt.

It was said it was mentioned as a source of rebuke and roughness and its reality is not desired; it was said the meaning is that this is his reward, but Allah might be generous to the monotheists and expel them from the Fire for their monotheism; it was said the estimation [of time] of “abiding in it [perpetually]” is until [a time that] Allah wills; and it was said that the desired [meaning] of perpetuity is a long period of time, not the true permanence, just as he says he resides [perpetually] for a specific period of time; and this is the least likely [meaning].[19] Increased explanation will come for it with the words regarding the hadîths of the Intercession, if Allah, exalted is He, willed.[20]

Elsewhere, in explaining another hadîth,[21] Ibn Hajar, may Allah have mercy on him, states that

His statements “My slave accosted Me with his soul” and “I have forbidden Paradise for him” could be regarded as dubious, because the first necessitates that whoever was killed had died before his appointed time, because of the notion the context of the hadîth gives: that if he did not kill himself, he would have delayed [his death] beyond that time and lived, but he rushed and went before [it]; and the second necessitates the monotheists residing [perpetually] in the Fire.

[…] The reply to the second is from [various] aspects. The first of them is that he legalized that action and became a disbeliever. The second of them [is that] he was actually a disbeliever and was penalized with the disobedient act in addition to his disbelief. The third of them is that the desired [meaning] is that Paradise was forbidden for him during whatever time, like the time in which the Forerunners enter [Paradise] or the time in which the monotheists are punished in the Fire, then expelled. The fourth of them is that the desired [meaning] is a specific [level of] Paradise, like al-Firdaws for example. The fifth is that that was mentioned in the way of roughness and instilling fear and its apparent [meaning] is not desired. The sixth of them is that the estimation [of time] is “I have forbidden Paradise for him if I want the duration of that.” The seventh of them, an-Nawawî said it is taken [to mean] that that was a law of whoever passed that the companions of the greater sins disbelieved by doing them.[22]

As Imams an-Nawawî and Ibn Hajar mention, the People of the Sunnah have come up with several explanations for these hadîths and what they could possibly imply, all in order to answer the doubts presented by the Mu’tazilah and the Khawârij who rely on these narrations to excommunicate[23] those who fall into sins. Even if Bilal’s stance on the issue were clear from the quote given by Moosaa (which it isn’t), to claim, as Moosaa has, that Bilal “contradicts the belief of Ahlus-Sunnah and supports the belief of the Khawaarij and the Mu’tazilah,” is quite a stretch. I’d even go as far as to say that given the fact that Bilal has translated the short treatise, Mujmal Masâ’il al-Îmân al-‘Ilmiyyah fî Usūl al-‘Aqîdah as-Salafiyyah,[24] by some of Shaikh al-Albânî’s Jordanian students, if Bilal holds similar views to those held and expressed by these Jordanian students of al-Albânî’s, may Allah have mercy on him,—and I think it’s pretty safe to assume that he does—then Moosaa’s claim against Bilal is quite ridiculous.[25] This is made even more so by the fact that some exaggerators (falsely) accuse al-Albânî and his students of irjâ’,[26] the polar opposite of the heresy the Khawârij are guilty of.

I wonder if Moosaa would make the same accusations and express the same zeal and concern to clarify these sorts of “dangerous mistakes” when they come from others. It should be noted that in both Imam adh-Dhahabî’s al-Kabâ’ir and Shaikh al-‘Abbâd’s Bi Ayy ‘Aql wa Dîn (mentioned earlier in the footnotes), the issue of suicide is presented in pretty much the same manner the quote from Bilal seems to portray it; all make mention of the texts without much further explanation or elaboration—if any at all. Moosaa’s friends over at Salafi Publications also have a verdict given by Shaikh Muhammad bin Salih bin ‘Uthaimîn on suicide translated on both their SPubs.com and FatwaIslam.com sites that practically says the same thing that the quote from Bilal Philips does.[27]

Intellectual and academic honesty dictate that these things should be mentioned. Sadly, however, they’ve been hidden from Moosaa’s readers and the issue has been made to seem simpler and more cut and dry than it actually is, all under the pretext of warning people from the supposed dangerous errors made by someone they consider deviant.

——————————————————————————–
Endnotes:

[1] Ahmed, Hamza. “|troid.org| Article: Errors in the Writings of Bilal Philips: The One who Commits Suicide.” Email to Rasheed Gonzales. March 29, 2010. See Errors in the Writings of Bilal Philips: The One who Commits Suicide…. troid.org (accessed April 6, 2010).

[2] Moosaa. “Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips on Suicide.” Online posting. March 28, 2010. salafitalk.net (accessed April 6, 2010).

[3] Philips, Bilal. “Peace Conference Scandinavia 2010.” Online posting in comments section. April 2, 2010. blog.bilalphilips.com (accessed April 7, 2010).

[4]  “Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips on Suicide” (accessed April 6, 2010).

[5] ibid. (emphasis Moosaa’s; he references the quote from Bilal to Islamic Studies Book 3, pg. 85 (2nd ed., 2005, IIPH, Riyadh)).

[6] ibid.

[7] ibid.

[8] ibid. (emphasis added).

[9] “Peace Conference Scandinavia 2010” (accessed April 7, 2010).

[10] Published by Imam al-Bukhârî in his Sahîh (no. 5778) and Imam Muslim in his Sahîh (no. 109); the wording quoted is al-Bukhârî’s.

[11] Muslim’s wording of this hadîth is, «Whoever killed himself with an iron tool, then his iron tool is in his hand perpetually thrusting it into his stomach in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever. Whoever drank poison and killed himself, then his poison is in his hand perpetually slurping it up in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever. Whoever fell off from a mountain and killed himself, then he is in the fire of Hell, perpetually falling in it, abiding in it forever.»

adh-Dhahabî’s al-Kabâ’ir has, «Whoever killed himself with an iron tool, then his iron tool is in his hand perpetually thrusting it into his stomach in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever. Whoever killed himself with poison, then his poison is in his hand perpetually slurping it up in the fire of Hell, abiding in it forever» (see al-Kabâ’ir, ed. Abū ‘Ubaidah Mash·hūr bin Hasan Âl Salmân, Maktabah al-Furqân, 2003).

[12] In more recent times, Shaikh ‘Abdul-Muhsin bin Hamad al-‘Abbâd in his essay titled, Bi Ayy ‘Aql wa Dîn Yakūn at-Tafjîr wat-Tadmîr Jihâdan?! Waihakum … Ufîqū Yâ Shabâb!!, which I have translated with the title, With Which Intellect & Religion Are Bombing & Destruction Jihad?! Woe to You … Wake up, O Youth!!!, which can be found on my blog.

[13] an-Nawawî, Muhy ad-Dîn Abū Zakariyâ Yahyâ bin Sharaf (Ed. Khalîl Ma’mūn Shîhâ). Sahîh Muslim bi Sharh al-Imâm Muhy ad-Dîn an-Nawawî al-Musammâ al-Minhâj Sharh Sahîh Muslim bin al-Hajjâj (3rd ed.). Beirut, Lebanon: Dar el-Marefah, 1996. vol. 2, pg. 306.

[14] I.e., Imam al-Bukhârî.

[15] Sahîh al-Bukhârî, nos. 1363-1365.

[16] I.e., where Imam al-Bukhârî cites the hadîth in full (no. 3463); his citation of it in this particular chapter of his Sahîh is summarized. In the full citation of the hadîth, Jundub bin ‘Abdillah, may Allah be pleased with him, mentions that Prophet Muḥammad, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, said, «There was a man from those who came before you with an injury. He grew anxious [about it] and took a knife and cut his hand with it; the blood did not cease flowing until he died. Allah, exalted is He, said, “My slave accosted Me with his soul, [thus] I have forbidden Paradise for him.”»

[17] Ar. marfū’ – raised. In Hadîth terminology it refers to a narration related by a Companion in which he or she informs of something that Prophet Muḥammad, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, said or did. See Shaikh Ahmad Shâkir’s al-Bâ’ith al-Hathîth Sharh Ikhtisâr ‘Ulūm al-Hadîth, pg. 46 (Dâr al-Âthâr).

[18] See its reference in footnote no. 10.

[19] Interesting to note that this seems to be the opinion Moosaa is saying is the correct understanding held by the People of the Sunnah.

[20] al-‘Asqalânî, al-Hâfidh Ahmad bin ‘Alî bin Hajar. Fat·h al-Bârî bi Sharh Sahîh al-Bukhârî. Cairo, Egypt: Dâr ar-Rayyân, 1987. vol. 3, pg. 269 (with omission, emphasis added).

[21] Sahîh al-Bukhârî, no. 3463. See footnote no. 16 for the full text of this hadîth.

[22] Fat·h al-Bârî bi Sharh Sahîh al-Bukhârî, vol. 6, pg. 577 (with omission).

[23] Ar. takfîr – the act of declaring disbelief upon an individual or group, effectively expelling the individual or group from the fold of Islam rendering them disbelievers, non-Muslims. Although it’s a Christian term and one that does not convey the meaning of expelling someone from the religion entirely, it’s the closest English word in meaning, thus I have chosen to use it.

[24] General Issues of Faith From the Fundamentals of the Salafee Creed (Word format, accessed April 16, 2010). See Salafee Creed by Dr. Bilal Philips under the Publications Downloads section of Bilal Philips’s website.

[25] As expected, Moosaa’s made some additional posts replying to some of the contentions that were sent to him about his initial posts, one of which is concerning the issue of the summarized speech of an individual compared to his elaborate speech. Moosaa claims that “[t]his kind of interaction with people’s statements is actually one of the innovations brought by Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribee, wherein the principle of ‘mujmal and mufassal’ is applied to the speech of people, to explain away clear errors.” I’ve already translated several statements from contemporary scholars from the People of the Sunnah to show that this claim of Moosaa’s is just plain retarded—and that doesn’t even take into account the several other statements from the imams and scholars of the past to prove this as well that weren’t included in the article. See The Summarized & the Elaborated on my blog.

[26] Ar. irjâ’ – deferment or postponement. It refers to the heretic belief held by the Murji’ah in which actions are not part faith; that a person either has faith or does not. They hold that no amount of sins, whether greater or lesser, have an effect on one’s faith, thus it does not increase, nor decrease. Because faith resides in the heart, the Murji’ah say that judgement on a person (e.g., his being a sinner or an disbeliever) is left to Allah and deferred until Judgement day.

[27] See “Shaykh Ibn Uthaymeen on Committing suicide” spubs.com (accessed April 17, 2010) and “Suicide in Islaam” fatwaislam.com (accessed April 17, 2010).

 

Note (added at the time of publishing): Since I first read Moosaa’s posts and drafted this article, Moosaa’s edited his initial post and added numerous amendments to it in subsequent posts; I expect he’s going to continue doing so for quite some time as well. It’d be interesting to see what he says about these other opinions from the People of the Sunnah mentioned by an-Nawawî and Ibn Hajar.

About Rasheed Gonzales
My name is Rasheed Gonzales. I’m a Muslim convert of Filipino descent. Born and raised in Toronto, Canada, I was guided to Islam through one of my younger brothers and a couple of friends, all of whom had converted to Islam sometime before me (may Allah reward them greatly). I am married with four children (and the praise is Allah’s) and also a volunteer for the Qur'an & Sunnah Society of Canada, based in Toronto.

94 Responses to Moosaa’s Mountain Out of Bilal’s Molehill

  1. Eesa says:

    I do visit salafitalk.net often as they have many beneficial posts. But recently, there have been a couple of occasions whereby I questioned what was the point of this e.g, last year, or maybe the year before, they had posted a picture of Bilal Philips, Shuaib Hasan and I think Salim al-Amry at a pre-eid dinner. It was written if I remember correctly, “unity upon anything, is this salafiayyah?” And this was posted within 48 hours of the event taking place. I thought to myself, why with all the other posts concerning Bilal and Shuaib, do we need to see this. And I think the reason they had this dinner with ahlul bidah was to promote the sunnah of praying the eid prayer outside.

    Another example was the question Abu Usaamah supposedly asked Shaykh Saalih as-Sadlaan about Shaykh Rabee. The way it was posted would make the reader think Abu Usaamah asked this question but all he did was translate a question from the audience. Though, they were correct in saying Abu Usaamah added the hadeeth but incorrect by saying Abu Usaamah said Shaykh Rabee should stop cursing dead people, he quoted the hadeeth that Messenger of Allah said don not curse dead people.

    Just an example of a couple of posts where I thought that this was just petty.

  2. Salam ‘alaik ya akhi.

    I was only recently introduced to your blog here, barely a month. However, I really enjoyed reading your posts. Very clear-cut and straight to the point, and your analysis is in-depth, masha-Allah.

    I often wonder how you find time to write your articles, making references and analysis.

    May Allah ease you in your affairs. Barakallahu feek.

  3. abdulhamid says:

    jazakAllahukhayran brother rasheed for posting this in defense of the dr. bilal hafidhahullah, usually replies to salafitalk.net would waste one’s time, but sometimes it’s necessary because many people don’t get to see the other side. and regarding brother moosa richardson, i didnt expect this from him, usually he has more beneficial things to post, but this is a cheap shot, also the post was made in the “Al-Ikhwan al-Muslimoon, Qutbiyyah, Takfiris, Extremists, Terrorists” section of the forum, is that really what Bilal Philips is about, audhubillah.

    keep upthe good work akhi

    salam

  4. AbuAmatullah says:

    A confirmation of brother Isa above related to two very important points that show you the mischievous nature of people such as abdulilah and his likes:

    1. AbdulIlah posted in SalafiTalk: “Then Abu Usama Khalifah added in the translation that Sheikh Rabee’ should stop “cursing the dead people… “due to a hadeeth of the Prophet salallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam mentioning this. This addition was not mentioned by Sheikh Sadlan in the Arabic so take note.”

    2. Abu Usaamah said (listen to audio on youtube:

    “I (sheikh sadlan) told him (sheikh rabi) that it was my opinion it was better for him to leave off some of this kalam that he made in some of the people who had already died from the people of knowledge and that’s because of the hadith of the prophet (saw): “don’t curse the dead people ..”

    Clearly it can be seen, Abdulilah deception and lies and how he twisted the words to make out that abu usaamah said “Sheikh Rabee should stop ‘cursing the dead people ..”

    I am sure he listened to the tapes many many times and look how he has worded it to make it look more worse than the reality, He (abu usaamah) added a hadith no doubt, this happens during live translations but he (abdulilah) is trying to give the impression that abu usaamah intended to belittle sheikh rabee but to twist the words in such a way to give the reader a worse interpretation.

    No doubt this is a hallmark of these brothers with ghuloo. On top of this you see all the people on salafi talk supporting abdulilah shows they are like sheep not checking what they are reading ..

    In next few days no doubt you will see some changes on salafitalk without abdulilah making open taubah for his twisting the translation .. one rule for us another for our opponents!!

  5. Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah Mohamed Farhan.

    As you can probably tell by my blog’s inactivity, I haven’t been devoting much of my time to writing and researching as I’ve been caught up with worldly things for the most part (as I mentioned in my previous piece on Salafism). But with regards to the references, then to Allah is the praise, I’ve got a decent library. I’ve also got some pretty resourceful friends when it comes to finding things in books or online (*cough*Yusuf*cough* … along with a few others) may Allah reward and bless them greatly. They make things a lot easier.

    In any case, may Allah reward and bless you for dropping by and your kind words, and may He give you what you’ve asked Him to give me.

  6. Salam ‘alaik ya akhi.

    You mean the one about being “salafi burnout”? Hehe. Yup, I enjoyed reading that one. In fact, I can relate to it well. Reading it makes me feel more at ease with the current situation I’m in.

    Wallahu al-Musta’an.

  7. Eesa says:

    Abu Amatullah, jazakh’Allah for the link provided in your comment. It adds further clarity to what I was trying to get across. I have met Abdulilah on quite a few occasions and wouldn’t call him mischeivious. Maasha’Allah he is a very nice brother who loves salafiyyah and our Scholars and through him, Allah the most high has guided many to our blessed dawah. I would prefer to make an excuse for him regarding this and say it was an oversight on his part.

  8. AbuAmatullah says:

    Brother Eesa, honesty and integrity is a hallmark of the believer. More so when it comes to the honour of other salafi brothers. Do you consider Abu Usaamah to be salafi? Ask AbdulIlah whether he considers Abu Usaama to be salafi or not. If you meet him then why not mention this point to him and see how he defends himself and tries to justify it instead of humbling himself. He has done similar on previous occasions. The point is when it comes to people like Abu Usaamah, AbdulQadir etc he is quick to go to the scholars and get refutations of them and put them up on the net.. when it comes to his own ‘group’ he overlooks they mistakes and makes excuses for them. This is true hizbiyyah aki something they always rant about.

  9. ilyas says:

    As salamu alikum akhee bro esa, and abu amatullah.

    I live in East london, i meet brother rasheed with abdul haqq kofi ashanti, may allah reward him and others.

    Brothers Esa its easy to defend those who flock together, The way you are defending abdullah, as if he the pointed out the mistake?

    Or do you consider that he made the mistake?

    Where is the Husnud dhaan for abu usaamah?

    It remind me how you and others beside like you, who like to be in the good books of sp and their cronies, will come supporting and praising as they made you to please them rather than allah?

    Look at the past issues, pumping faalih al harbi, pumping fawzi al bahraine, muhammad al anjaree, etc….

    Who promoted them and made them yardstick for the haqq?

    Even now, Shaikh Ubayd issues, is put under the carpet? why? Is he the kibaar now?

    Sp manhaj is like a see saw, one moment you are on the haqq, next moment you are misguided?

    Look at Shaikh ali hasan issue? I have the Manhaj magazine sp translated the fatwah against the Lajnah also i have the prinout from their web page? Now he is a deviant and not a student of Shaikh Al Albani?

    Bro esa it does not take a rocket scientist, see the manhaj of sp and their cronies is deception and taweel al baatil.?

    As far as their manhaj is concerned, is to prmote their view? even if it wrong? too many to example give…..

    Which ulema have they gone to get their verdict about dr bilal phillips issues, instead its just issue based upon the understanding Imam nawawi, Ibn hajar and others….

    What research did they look into about suicide? I know shaikh Muqbil has done a research on this, why does not moosa richardson translate it and what fatwa that the scholars have given?

    Instead we write issues to defend ourselves?

    Remember Jarh Mufasseer? where is it gone? and who does it?

    I also ask you, bro esa, if you do jarh upon me, do you not read my counter arguments to the jarh? as for sp no, but in a islamic court, the judge or the scholar will have to hear my defence and not just take the jar mufasseer, as the way sp put it.

    So i ask you have you read all the arguments and the counter arguments before siding with the haqq or personality.

  10. as-Salam ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah, Ilyas.

    I think you may have misundestood the two brothers’ comments.

  11. Eesa says:

    Walaikum salam wa rahmatullah akh Ilyas…

    Without trying to come across as rude, but what were you on about in your lengthy comment? I think you have something against SP and are taking it out on me. If you read the first comment, I made the point concerning a couple of petty posts on salafitalk. Would someone who wants to be in the good books of SP do this?

    My point in my second comment was that I prefer to make an excuse for a salafi brother (which Abdulilah is) when he makes a mistake.

    And just because other brothers rush to find fault with others doesn’t mean that we have to behave the same way. My deen is between me and Allah and not the people. So if I can make an excuse for a brother, then I hope Allah will excuse some of my shortcomings.

  12. Ibn_Ahmed says:

    Assalamu’ alaaykum, Jazak’Allahu’Khair akhee Rasheed, yet another eye-opener for the laymen. This is what Sheikh Alee Al-Halabee(May Allah Protect him) described as “Intellectual Terrorism”. Western theorists call this “the politics of spin”, “exaggeration” and “tabloid methods” all used to demote, frustrate and win over votes from the other side.
    Organisations such as (SP, etc) May Allah reward them, have masha’alah done very well to demote extremist violence, and rightly so. However in doing so, they have fallen into exaggeration and error.

    Regarding the topic this is what Shaikh Al-Albani said about sucide:
    http://croydonict.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=37&Itemid=29

    Regarding what Shaikh Sadlan (May Allah Protect him) said about Shaikh Rabee (May Allah Protect him).
    I was present when the question was asked.

    A) The question was from the floor, Abu Usamah asked the admin whether they were sure that they wanted the question to be answered, then whispered in to Shaikh Sadlan’s ear (perhaps to receive his approval)thats when the youtube audio above started: “the person here, he asked the question.Hmmmm. As you saw we tried to see for the Shaikh..” This is all recorded (and on dvd)
    B) SP had there own conference during that weekend and perhaps when the question itself was being asked they were lecturing. So why were they bothered with what the Shaikh said.

    Just a side issue (not that I really care) but I wonder what they have to say about this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I43loNfWgP8
    Similar statement was mentioned at the end of this recording (the last question) by Shaikh Ghuydaan here: http://www.salafitapes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=693&Itemid=26
    The Shaikh brushes the question regarding the organisation (Jamiat’Ihya’turath)aside.
    It seems that Shaikh Alee Al-Halabi etc, and others are attacked for some stances that other scholars have taken. Anyways that aside it’s quite ironic that on the website perhaps till recently it stated:
    Regarding the Fatwa of the Lajnah Da’eemah: Shaikh Muhammad Ibn Saleh Al-Uthaymeen said: “I do not like the fact that it was issued, because there is within it what creates turmoil amonst the people – and my advice to the sudent of knowledge is they should not give any care for the fatawa of fulaan or fulaan”

    I personally believe that you can be an upright Salafi, by Allah’aza’wa’jal’s permission by sticking to relevant issues to your daily lives as a Muslim sticking to the religious verdicts of the ulemah that are well known, not concerning yourself with issues taking place between (in some cases largely unknown/unfamiliar) students of knowledge/ Ulemah. But busying yourself with learning your religion as mentioned time and time again and again by the Shaikh, “baqeetus-Salaf”, Abdul Muhsin (May Allah Protect him): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSMB-rPzcYU&feature=related

    Rasheed please edit if you feel the above is unnecessary.

  13. Aboo Yoosuf says:

    Allaahul musta’aan. I had a similar conversation on brother Abu Usamah’s issue with a brother and how things have been blown out of proportion only days after that thread was created, making it look like “Abu Usamah is a filthy partisan out to destroy Shaykh Rabee'”. And I do not exaggerate in that. That is the perception laymen get from reading the salafitalk post. And since Musa Richardson also mentioned that Dr Bilal Philips won’t be there to explain his stance on suicide, you wouldn’t have anyone clarifying to the laymen when they read the thread on this question.

    Abu Usamah addressed Sh Rabee as a virtuous Shaykh in his Arabic question. Does that sound any bell to others? Anyone objectively listening to Abu Usamah’s question-answer session would see the ghuloo that has been shown towards him. And Abu Usamah, may Allaah protect him, has not openly refuted Abdulilah or created blog entries or anything, on this as far as I know, even though this should really be addressed. Yes, Abu Usamah added the hadeeth part, but no, nothing else ‘you’ mentioned about Abu Usamah is true or fair in those posts. How many times have we seen Abu Khadeejah and Abdulilah adding statements and hadeeths when they’re translating statements of the Shuyookh? WAllaah, just look at Shaykh Falaah’s present visit in Masjid as-Salafi, Birmingham and see how the brothers are translating and adding statements to what the Shaykh is saying. Before you find ‘faults’ in others, look at your own selves!

    Many a times I’ve had posted some lecture or links from Abu Usamah adh-Dhahabi or from Sh al-Halabi or Masjid Ibnu Taymiyyah elsewhere and before you know it, common Salafees start sending me links from salafitalk saying that they are all hizbis and mumayyi and so on! Alhamdulillaah I have a recording from Sh Muhammad al-Maliki on Brixton Masjid from summer 2009 and recording from Sh Wasee’ullaah on Abu Usamah, amongst other things to send back to them and they still wouldn’t back off or stay silent, saying those Shuyookh don’t know the reality!

    But give thanks and respect where it’s due. We have many brothers who, despite being attached to salafitalk fitaan, do not rush towards spreading fitnah or consider everyone not connected to SP to be Hizbis/Surooris/Ikhwanis. The Da’ee brother Abuz Zubayr Shadeed Muhammad is a good example to give how he has kept himself away from most controversial issues that Salafis bicker about.

    But brother Ibn Ahmed mentioned good, may Allaah reward him. And I agree with him in his personal opinion. Alhamdulillaah, I know brothers, who despite seeing SP in a good way and everything, does not traverse their path of self-destruction on most part. http://www.athaar.org is a good example till today that I can give.

  14. ilyas says:

    My appologise if i mis uderstood brother esa comments.

  15. Ibn_Ahmed says:

    Wa iyyakum, shukran, akhee Aboo Yusuf. May Allah’aza’wa’jal bless you.I have the audios you’ve mentioned aswell.I similarly find myself in those circumstances you described.
    I hate to drag my points:
    (1)I mentioned the western terms – because at times all of this is just politics. Although some people try to rigorously prove it’s all done in defence of the Manhaj etc. In reality Salafism is free from an owner, be it a sheikh, an organisation, or a group of people. But it’s to understand Islam in an unadulterated manner in accordance to the Pious Predecessors. And this has been repeated time and time again. As mentioned by Shaikh Mashoor Ibn Hassan Aal-Salman (May Allah Protect him) here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTGfAdxYD1Q&feature=related

    (1)There’s another perhaps western term: “the politics of fear” which is used to scaremonger etc.In this case it is used to block people from listening to a Salafi sheikh (or da’ee), a masjid or an organisation. This is done by using quotes such as Muhammad Ibn Serneens ““Verily, this knowledge is. Religion. So look into whom you take your Religion from…” and other famous quotes from Imam’s Ahmad, Barbaharee, etc about innovation & innovators(which are usually in reference to the Jamahiyah & other deviated sects) And applying these quotes to other Salafi masajid, organisations, or a da’eeyah that may have error etc. This in turn has made particular individuals, forums or organisations the reference point for who to take knowledge from and who not to take knowledge from. This is seen on the forum where you regularly find posts such as “I am in Egypt/Sudan/Syria…Who can I sit with?” ..”Is there any salafi communities in…” This is power politics which has been sugared coated by the idea of defending the manhaj.
    (2)“The fear of the unknown”, Can be seen in the usage of the fatawa of some of the ulemah in an unrestrictive absolute sense. For example the fatwa of Shaikh.Dr. Falah Ibn Ismaeel Al- Mandakar (May Allah’aza’wa’jal strenghten him) “What is the Ruling on Listing to Unknown Speakers and Taking Knowledge from them?
    This is a correct and true fatwa – but the manner in which it is applied by some is incorrect.
    (A)Unknown to whom? If you ask some salafi’s here in the west who is Abdul Qadir Ar’nout? Ahmed Shakir? They won’t have a clue. And in terms of those scholars that are alive, if you ask some salafi’s here in the west, who is Abdella Mutlaq, or Khalid Muslih? They won’t have a clue. Not that knowing, these scholars is the criterion of some one being salafi or not but I hope you get the point.
    (B) If the individual is known, what is he know for? As mentioned by Rasheed in another post – some people are known but their fruits are rotten.
    As I mentioned this fatwa is correct. But it should not be used to restrict people from benefited from those that are known to some scholars and unknown to others. For example there is a Shaikh coming to the U.K next month by the name of Shaikh Umar Al-Batoosh from (J)Urdun – he is unknown by many in the west – but he is known to the likes of Shaikh Abdul Muhsin Al-Ubaykaan and the Shayookh of Jordon.
    (c) Some scholars are specialized in particular fields, or they may not been well known outside there country or town.

    (3)Regarding the statement that some use …“the Shaikh doesn’t know the reality/the situation”…”he doesn’t have full clarity” … usually means – to put it kindly “We don’t care”. This statement has been used to reject the fatwa’s of Al-Mufti Abdul Aziz Aal-Shaikh, Shaikh’s Abdul Muhsin, Wasee’Ullah, Sadlan and many others. In saying this statement more rightfully should be applied to those who have less knowledge like the laymen on the street or a da’ee. Who in the first case (of the layman) – if he made such statements, or attending particular mosques- he may be treated harshly or unjustly.And in the latter case (of the da’ee) he may be blacklisted, warned against or even boycotted.

    (4)Although I hate lists of websites – I do refer people to http://www.almuflihoon.com/ and other similar neutral sites.

    (5)It should not be understood from my comments that we take knowledge from ever public joe– warning against like of al-qaeeda, there supporters, takfiris, suroori’s, sufis etc is necessary.
    Nor should it be understood that we follow the mistakes of any individual. But we say in regards to our Salafi scholars similar to what Shaikh Saleh Aal-Shaikh mentioned here: http://salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_CorrectingScholars

    (6)Regarding what brother Eesa said, yes Benefit from the Salafi’s in the west, but if that means not attending the lectures of the likes of Shaikh’s Sudais, Sadlan, Wasee’Ullah Al-Abbas, Abdella Shitri, Abdul ‘Aziz Sadhan and others that have come to the U.K over the last couple of years then I know where I’d prefer to be. We just need to be balanced insha’alah.

    (7)There are a number of hadeeth’s that mention similar statements to …the son of adam will not move till he’s asked about four matters”…the slave will be asked three questions in the grave…I don’t recall any of these stating that you will be asked about fulaan or ilaan.

    Perhaps rasheed can write an article called “Salafism, for dummies” or “Tools for the laymen”.Sorry to prolong my comment. This is just my observations. I thought I’d share them. Assalamu alaykum wa rahamatullah. I maybe mistaken. Allahu’alam.

  16. Just skimmed over some of the replies by other posters …

    With all the talk about the English language in a couple of the posts, they apparently don’t quite seem understand the meaning of the word “implies“.

  17. Perhaps rasheed can write an article called “Salafism, for dummies” or “Tools for the laymen”.Sorry to prolong my comment. This is just my observations. I thought I’d share them. Assalamu alaykum wa rahamatullah. I maybe mistaken. Allahu’alam.

    Salafism: Do You Really Get It? was kind of intended to be the beginnings of something like that. I was hoping that it’d get people thinking and reevalutating what they believed Salafism was all about. Apparently, many of these guys still just don’t get it; and to Allah is the complaint.

  18. I’ve got another interesting tidbit related to what’s been mentioned on this particular topic over on salafitalk.net: the issue of praying over the one who’s committed suicide.

    In a couple of the posts to the salafitalk.net thread regarding Bilal’s supposed dangerous error, in arguing the importance of why the “correct” understanding of this issue is needed, the posters (Moosaa and some other dude) mention that the rights of Muslims who’ve committed suicide are being violated, one of which being the funeral prayer not being prayed over them.

    In Fat·h al-Bari, Ibn Hajar mentions,

    It has been transmitted from Malik that the repentance of one who kills a soul is not accepted, and what it necessitates is that he is not prayed over, and this is al-Bukhari’s actual opinion. I [i.e., Ibn Hajar] say perhaps by that, al-Bukhari is alluding to what is narrated by the companions of the Sunan from the hadith of Jabir bin Samurah, “that the Prophet, may Allah send salutations and peace upon him, came to a man who killed himself with an arrowhead and did not pray over him,” and in a narration of an-Nasa’i’s, “as for I, I will not pray over him.” (Fat·h al-Bari, vol. 3, pg. 268-269).

    Moosaa’s argument doesn’t quite have the same impact knowing that there are imams from the People of the Sunnah whose opinions were that the person who commits suicide is not prayed over.

  19. Heh, Moosaa’s got a little message in his latest post on salafitalk.net. I can only assume it’s aimed at me. Moosaa chirps,

    Some people are just honestly confused, and their confusion only inncreases as they read books over their level of understanding. Imagine someone with (at best) a very limited understanding of Arabic reading a book like Fat-hul-Baaree (a massive book with difficult passages for a beginning student of knowledge) for example with an Arabic-English dictionary, and then publicly annoucing his findings! The solution: Be honest with yourself and your own level of knowledge, and do not speak about issues publicly as you learn them, rather gain knowledge of your religion, understand it first, and then share it with others after you have understood it properly. Do not let the era of the “blog” lead you into speaking about Allaah’s Religion without knowledge, as this is a major sin.

    Others are scrambling to find any issue to use as a smokescreen to defend Dr. Bilal Philips’ errors, even if it means promoting the ‘aqeedah of the Khawaarij, and using their line of argument.

    It’s amusing how he refuses to address the other opinions given by the People of the Sunnah that were mentioned by both Imams an-Nawawi and Ibn Hajar, which clearly give room for the understanding that eternity in Hell is the actual “rule of thumb” punishment for committing suicide (but that the monotheists from them will be spared on account of their monotheism). Instead he chooses to focus on (assuming it’s directed at me) my limited understanding of Arabic and my level of knowledge.

    Btw Moosaa, if you get wind of this reply … no one’s confusing the refusal of praying over one who committed suicide and excommunication of the one who committed suicide–at least in these parts, anyhow. No one here ever once mentioned that not praying over someone meant that it wasn’t allowed to pray over him or her or that it even necessitates excommunication of the person; that’s a figment of your own imagination (it’s amazing that with all the blessed Islamic learning you’re supposedly getting, no one over there’s taught you to use your God-given brain to actually think things through before opening your mouth … or in this case, let your fingers type away).

  20. There’s a new article by Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad titled al-Haqq fi Nusus al-Wa’d wal-Wa’id Wasat Bain Tarafai al-Ifrat wat-Tafrit. The article discusses the position the People of the Sunnah have with regards to the texts that speak of the promises of Paradise and the threats of Hellfire. Near the end of the article, the shaikh mentions the accusations of irja against Shaikh al-Albani, may Allah shower him with His mercy, and clears him of such a heresy quoting a statement of al-Albani’s the proves he is free of it. He then makes a statement that I think Moosaa and his buddies would find very interseting. The shaikh states,

    What has come from [Shaikh al-Albani] regarding the topic [of faith and deeds] of words containing summation and a likelyhood [of meaning something it doesn’t], it should be taken in the best sense and taken according to his detailed words. In ar-Radd ‘alal-Bakri (pg. 224), Shaikh of Islam Ibn Taimiyyah said, “[What is] known is that the speaker’s detailed words do away with his summarized [words, i.e., they are used to judge the summarized words’ meaning,] and his explicit [words] are given precedence to his indirect expressions.” (source – top of the last scanned page)

    I wonder if these [guys] will say that Shaikh of Islam and Shaikh al-Abbad were affected by Shaikh Abul-Hasan’s heresy too and thus, their words here cannot be accepted.

  21. Salam ‘alaik Akhi Rasheed.

    I’ve just read the post by Moosaa. Honestly, I’m now confused. Hope you can get me out of this confusion. Shukran wa barakallahu feek.

  22. Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah Mohamed Farhan,

    Which post of his, and what are you confused about? Feel free to email me if you wish.

  23. You’ve got to love, love, love the pathetic scare-mongering tactics and attempted character assassinations these [people] employ time and time again. Complete intellectual bankruptcy, nothing more, nothing less.

    Btw, whoever bumped that old post from 2002 on salafitalk filled lies and misinformation about me, thanks!

  24. I posted the following in the comments section of Bilal’s blog:

    Suicide is a very serious sin, counted among the greater sins (al-kaba’ir). Severe threats of eternity in the Fire are mentioned in several texts both from the Qur’an and in several hadiths. There is also a lot of discussion about these threats and their true implications within the ranks of the People of the Sunnah, contrary to the portrait Moosaa wishes to paint for his audience.

    There are so many different aspects to this discussion that to paint it as if it were black and white, as Moosaa’s trying to do here, is unjust and in my opinion amounts to academic dishonesty, especially from someone in Moosaa’s position, being a gratuate from Umm al-Qura Uni. He says that someone like me whose Arabic isn’t too great and whose level of knowledge is miniscule should be honest with himself, but someone in his position should be honest enough to give his blind followers readers a fuller picture of the issue and mention the other opinions that scholars from the People of Sunnah have used to explain these texts. Like seriously, how much understanding of Arabic and how high a level of knowledge do you need to see that both Imams an-Nawawi and Ibn Hajar mention several opinions regarding what “khalidan mukhalladan fiha abadan” means??? Does he think we’re retarded or something?

  25. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    @rasheed gonzales may allah reward you with good. ameen

  26. May Allah bless and reward you with good as well, Abdullah.

  27. aboo faatimah says:

    As salamu alikum

    May Allah reward you with good.

    I have a question for the sheeps of spubs and anyone else who follows them:

    If a person who comitted suicide, knowing that it is haram, and that he will go to hell-fire for a long time, not eternally, does that mean those who committ suicide in the name of jihad, died upon tawheed, that their action is justified?

    Sucide can broadly be of 3 types:

    1) Suicide, believing that is haram, but still committed suicide.

    2) Suicide, believing that it is halal, comitted suicide.

    3) Sucide, Doubtful, does not know whether it is haram or halal, committs suicide.

    Issue on the above 3 areas is: As long as he dies upon tawheed or shirk or doubt or kufur?

  28. There seem to be those, including Moosaa and some of the [posters] over at salafitalk.net, who seem to be hung up on that foolish notion of having “the correct salafi stance” regarding this issue (something I mentioned in my Salafism, Do You Really Get It? article). They’re ignoring the fact that according to the imams I’ve quoted, there are several stances taken by the People of the Sunnah, all of which are in opposition to the Mu’tazilah and the Khawarij. As I mentioned in an email I sent to one brother,

    one of the main reasons why I wrote my paper was that I wanted people to see that this supposed mistake from Bilal wasn’t a mistake at all. He presented the information just as many have presented the information before him and will continue to present it after him. In my paper, I mentioned Imam adh-Dhahabi’s al-Kaba’ir and Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin’s Bi Ayy Aql wa Din as examples. When people usually mention these texts, they do so to instill fear in those reading. It kind of defeats the purpose of the threats when you explain “but it doesn’t really mean forever” (if you in fact hold that opinion). Will Moosaa say that his friends at SP (like Amjad Rafiq whose translation of a verdict by al-Albani was recently sent out on the Aqeedatus-Salaf Yahoo mailing group and also gives this same impression, i.e., the idea that the one who commits suicide will be in Hell forever) mistranslated these texts? Will he accuse Imams adh-Dhahabi and Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin of not presenting the texts in the proper manner? And will he be a man and translate the hadiths as they are instead of doing what he’s done in recent posts not translating it [at] all, leaving it as “khalidan mukhalladan abadan” and then adding a footnote?

    If the answer is “yes” to any of these questions at the end, then Moosaa needs to man-up and come out with it.

    For those curious, here’s the verdict from Shaikh al-Albani that I’m referring to, which was translated by Abu Iyaad Amjad Rafiq of SalafiPublications (emphasis added):

    Fatwa of Shaykh Al-Albaanee on Suicide Bombings

    …Now we come to suicide attacks this is what we know from the Japanese and their likes (Kamikaze pilots) when a man would attack an America(n)(1) warship with his plane and he would blow up along with his plane but he would have struck the army that was in the American warship.

    We say: Suicide attacks now, in the present time, all of them are not legislated (in the Sharee’ah), and all of them are unlawful, and they may be from those types (of suicide) on account of which its perpetrator will remain in the fire forever.

    As for suicide attacks being a (form of) nearness by which a person comes closer to Allaah, then today a person fights in the path of his land, in the path of his nation.(2) These suicide attacks are absolutely not Islamic.

    For example, individuals climb up mountains, and go to an army of the Jews killing a number of them and then being killed themselves. What is the benefit in these matters? These individual undertakings have no (desirable) end result that is for the benefit of the Islamic da’wah (call), Absolutely.

    For this reason we say to the Muslim youth, guard your lives with the condition that you study your Islamic religion, and that you come to know it with a correct acquaintance, and the best guidance is the guidance of Muhammad (Sallallaahu ‘Alaihi Was-Sallam).

    Translated by Abu Iyaad Amjad Rafiq
    Taken from Al-Fataawaa Al-Muhimma Fee Tabseer il-Ummah, p. 76

    (1) “America” in the original text. Obviously this is a typo.
    (2) Trans: Meaning, that those who perform these suicide bombings today, do so for their land and their nation, and not in the cause of Allaah.

  29. Aboo Yoosuf says:

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem.

    InshaAllah this comment shows yet another typical power politics and deception pulled by the latest poster, Sajid al-Hindi, hadahullah, on the topic on suicide on salafitalk.

    The person says:
    “Another reason to Look whose translation you take from!!! These bloggers who defend individuals like al-Ma’ribee and organizations like QSS should fear Allaah and repent.”

    Within the link given to whose translation one should take from, Shaykh ‘Ubayd hafidhahullah was asked about translating works of Ahlus Sunnah by “Ahlul Bid’ah” and behold. Sajid uses his internet skills to copy and paste issues and things to make them look one and the same! By Allah, this is from ignorance and oppression, we ask Allah to guide him, and that he repents sincerely for his attitude akin to the khawarij.

    “Examples of horrendous mis-translations:
    1.Abu Usaamah’s additions portraying Allamah Rabee’ in a bad light
    2.Saleem Begg’s intellectual FRAUD
    3.Ashairah’s mis-representation of Imaam at-Tahawi’s sayings”

    Issue 1: Abu Usamah’s Q&A session has been misportrayed by Abdulilah himself.

    Refer to earlier comments by myself and brother Ibn Ahmed; such as Abdulilah’s saying “The scholars reply to Abu Usamah Khalifah’s question against Shaikh Rabee'” which is at best a fabrication and a lie, and we seek refuge in Allah. The question was from the floor, not from Abu Usamah, putting Abu Usamah in a bad light. Abdulilah continues to say, “First, Abu Usama says: ‘some…” then this is again a fabrication. Abu Usamah asks on behalf of the questioner!

    Issue 2: Sajid al-Hindi and his likes should listen to Shaykh Salih as-Suhaymi hafidhahullah when he warned against such horrendous practice of misquoting and spreading fitnah here:
    1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFsHOKVjt6w
    (English translation added, wherein Shaykh extremely cautions against websited filled with fitnah and refutations of so-and-so while the brothers all traverse one manhaj.)
    2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5appwkItss
    (English translation added. Shaykh goes on to say leave the issue of al-Ma’ribi aside. That there are many youth that rushes to boycotting (hajr) and they do not even know what hajr is and what manhaj as-salaf is! Shaykh also says the issue of al-Ma’ribi is clear to him and he considers him an innovator but this does not obligate anyone else to consider such. He severely cautioned against hajr and said those who do so do upon jahl.)
    3. And many others, most of which have not been translated because Salafis in the West that are not tied to SP or Troid have better things to do. Look at the various Arabic clips from Sh al-Fawzan, al-Abbad and others here:
    http://www.youtube.com/user/AhlusSunnahHamza

    continued…
    P.S. Brother Rasheed, please edit my comment if you feel necessary to illustrate the points.

  30. That Sajid al-Hindi dude, a.k.a. Sajid Chauhan, needs to get tumped by the “How Can She Slap?!?!” dude, heh.

  31. Aboo Yoosuf says:

    Issue 3: Putting Abuz Zubayr Saleem Begg and the Ashairah on par with Abu Usamah! Allahul musta’an. This only reminds of the video lecture by this dude called Abdul Karim Hattin (from London) who showed a slide on powerpoint: half of slide contained a Mushrik bowing to Hindu god and the other side contained a ballot box and a Muslim voter. He tried to portay them one and the same, and we seek refuge in Allah from such people and their desires.
    Shaykh Wasee’ullah hafidhahullah spoke on the issue of Abu Usama and those who slander him severely, and he is more than qualified to speak on this issue. In fact anyone knowing Abu Usama in UK knows the mutual love and respect between him and the Mashayikh such as Sh Abdul Azeez as-Sadhan, Sh Saalih as-Sadlan, Sh Faysal al-Jasim and others who’ve come to UK on various occasions and never set their foot on Masjid as-Salafi from B’ham or Masjid as-Sunnah from London! Says a lot about who the ‘Ulamaa of Ahlus Sunnah cooperate with and have love for!
    Sh Wasee’ullah says, and this should at least make the likes of Sajid al-Hindi ponder over their desirous plots and acts, “As for branding as an innovator and warning against everyone who falls into error then this path is not from path of the Salaf and this is from the way of the Khawarij who use to go to extremes…
    You also attack the strangers and the weak ones and this is not from the noble action. It is as if this disease came to you from Britain!… Some people just desire to control the affairs of other people!
    http://www.salafitapes.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=281&Itemid=26

    Issue 4: Shaykh Khalid ar-Raddadi of Madeenah, hafidhahullah, has explicitly cautioned against Salafitalk forum and the deceptions of many posters there, Shaykh ar-Raddadi says:
    “I [would like to] bring attention to the point that I have advised the owners of this site – Salafi Talk – may Allaah guide them, that they stay away from spreading ‘Qeel wa Qaal’ (it was said and he said) on this site of theirs, and that they remove a lot of the statements and opinions that contain a lot of Ta’addee (excessiveness) and ignorance. In these statements as well, is a lot of injustice, making incorrect judgments/rulings as well as hastily spreading narrations. I have advised them about this, and they promised that they would remove a lot of these issues from their website.
    What is even stranger is that they are selective. They select from the sayings of the Mashaayikh and the students of knowledge that which is in agreement to their way and their Manhaj. If they find a saying of a Shaykh that is in agreement with their desires they run with it, put it on their site as well as advertise and propagate it, just as they have done with my speech on Jam’eeyat Ahlul Hadeeth.”
    http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1075
    We could add 100 more examples apart from what Sh ar-Raddadi mentioned, may Allah preserve him.

    continued…

  32. ilyas says:

    As salamu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu

    Sheeps are coming and baa baa here and baa baa there, ……

    Allah says “ O you who believe, why do you say that which you do not do……”

    Some of the post in defence of moosa richardson made me want to buy myself a REAL sheep, and get it graze on REAL GRASS, not fake, not substitute, but REAL GRASS…..

    Anyway the following is few analysis on one of the post:

    “Beautiful Examples of those who admitted their mistakes, repented and refuted the falsehood they were previously upon”

    Comments: what a beautiful title, brings tears to my eyes, the sincerety, being on the manhaj…… allahu akbar.

    Then we have:

    “Student of Knowledge Abu Khadeejah said:”

    Allahu akbar, at last a tullabul ilmi, allah has blessed us with a student of ilmi, to this day,
    where did he study?
    What are his qualifications in?
    Who are his teachers?

    What does he say:

    “Ya ikhwaan, finding the likes of Nu’aim bin Hammad in our times, subhanAllaah!!, seems like an impossibility. A man of his stature, that after his tawbah wrote 13 books [clarifying his past mistakes so as to warn the people of not following his errors]. Or the likes of Abul-Hasan Al-Ash’aree, [who wrote] in the region of 55 books [and 3 for the same purpose], ya ikhwaan.

    Finding that character and that kind of ikhlaas in our time, O brothers, is something extremely rare. Shaikh Rabee’ [bin Hadee al-Madkhalee] waited for Abul-Hasan Al-Ma`rabee. The scholars waited for al-Maghrawee. The scholars waited for ‘Adnaan ‘Ar’oor. The scholars waited for Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq. Waited and waited, but alas the era of the likes of Abul-Hasan Al-Ash’aree of old and the era of the likes of Nu’aim bin Hammad, and the era of the likes of those greats individuals who had ikhlaas and had this true sincerity and humility. Wallaahi, it seems that it is rare to find it in our times – these types of individuals. Rare.

    …As Shaikh ul-Islaam ibn Taymiyyah mentions that from our ‘aqidah and from our Usool is that the individual who makes an error in public, then his correction is in public. His correction is in public. So if they don’t correct themselves in public, then we correct them in public.”

    Read the following and see how much it applies to this and other fame seekers:

    “Waited and waited, but alas the era of the likes of Abul-Hasan Al-Ash’aree of old and the era of the likes of Nu’aim bin Hammad, and the era of the likes of those greats individuals who had ikhlaas and had this true sincerity and humility. Wallaahi, it seems that it is rare to find it in our times – these types of individuals. Rare. “ How true, how true, its been over 5 years since the bayaan was signed?

    “[8] Concerning the issue of boycotting and abandoning others (Al-Hajr): It is incumbent to refer to the scholars on this issue and to present any issues of this nature to them; they then will give the ruling as regards who deserves to be boycotted and who does not.”

    Has brother Richardson done the above with regards to Dr Bilal Phillips? I wonder

    If those sheeps read the bayaan, then they would know the Jahl, hizbiyah, dhulm, nameemah, buhtaan, etc…

    http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1091

    All praise is due to Allaah Lord of the worlds and may the peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad his family and companions.
    To proceed: We, some of the students in al-Madeenah an-Nabawiyyah would like to thank our brothers from al-Maktabah as-Salafeeyah (SalafiPublications) for signing the Bayaan (below) which Shaykh Muhammad ibn Haadee Al Madkhalee wrote and we ask that Allaah Jalla wa ‘Alaa guides us and them to that which is good and that he grants us beneficial knowledge, righteous actions and firmness upon the Sunnah.
    And may Allaah send the peace upon our Prophet Muhammad, his family and companions.
    [Signed by:]
    Ismaa’eel bin Yusuf, Suhail Ahmad, Ayman bin Dawood Fox, ‘Abdur-Raoof Muhammad and ‘Abdur-Rahmaan bin Yusuf.
    [Tuesday 30th Rabee’ ath-Thaanee 1426 – corresponding to – 7th June 2005]
    [Also signed by:]
    Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee Al-Madkhalee – 30/4/1426;
    Shaykh ‘Abdullah Al-Bukhaaree – 30/4/1426;
    Note: The Arabic text below contains the signatures of the aforementioned Shaykhs. Bayaan from Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee al-Madkhalee regarding the Brothers at SalafiPublications

    In the Name of Allaah Most Gracious Most Merciful
    All Praise is for Allaah Lord of the Worlds, and may honour and peace be upon the Noblest of the Prophets and Messengers, our Prophet Muhammad, and upon all his Family and Companions.
    The respected brothers at Salafi Publications in the city of Birmingham, Britain, visited me and we discussed a number of matters concerning the Salafi Da’wah in general, and its affairs in the West in particular. What I discussed with them in this regard was also discussed, or some of it was discussed, with them by other sheikhs. Based on this advice and discussion with the brothers, namely:
    Brother Abu Khadeejah Abd Al-Wahid;
    Brother Hasan Al-Somali;
    Brother Bilal Abu Hakeem
    I say, (based on the advice given) the following matters were agreed upon:
    [1] Fighting extremism (Al-Ghuluw) in all its forms, whether in the form of extremism for personalities or others like da’wah institutions, and that matters must be weighed according to the Islamic legal scales.
    [2] Concerning teaching and lecturing, we say: It is not permitted for anyone to put themselves forward to teach and deliver lectures until they become qualified in their knowledge and until the required legitimate authorization is issued to them, either from Islamic universities or known sheikhs under whom they have studied and become qualified in Islamic sciences.
    [3] Concerning edicts and rulings (fatwa): The brothers are not permitted to issue rulings to people because they are not from the qualified people of fatwa. It is upon them to refer the fatwa to the scholars amongst the sheikhs so that they can give them verdicts and then the brothers can circulate these fatawa or send them to the people concerned if the fatwa is private.
    [4] Concerning the translation of lessons, books or lectures: It is upon them to maintain precision, honesty and responsibility in this regard.
    [5] The brothers are not considered teachers who (themselves) are fulfilling the duty of education when they read the books of the scholars in which the latter have explained some (religious) texts; rather they are only conveying and translating the words of the scholars in explanation of these books.
    [6] Concerning what brother Bilal Abu Hakeem wrote on the topic of Al-Jarh wa Al-Ta’deel and which was circulated on the Salafi Talk website: It has been made clear to him that what he wrote was a clear error and in contradiction to what the hadith scholars, who are the real ‘People of Al-Jarh wa Al-Ta’deel’, are upon; not as the claimants and foreigners to this noble science say. When this became clear to him he admitted his error in this regard – Allaah reward him well – and this is the duty of all of us when our mistakes become clear to us. Thereafter he was made to understand that he must clarify his mistake and circulate his retraction.
    [7] Concerning being gentle with people when giving da’wah and teaching: It is upon the brothers to adhere to this way because ‘gentleness is not placed in anything except that it beautifies it and gentleness is not removed from anything except that it spoils it’ as the Messenger – sall Allaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam – said in the authentic narration.
    [8] Concerning the issue of boycotting and abandoning others (Al-Hajr): It is incumbent to refer to the scholars on this issue and to present any issues of this nature to them; they then will give the ruling as regards who deserves to be boycotted and who does not.
    [9] Concerning cooperation with their Salafi brothers: We instruct (the brothers at Salafi Publications) to cooperate with them. I have told them to do this on numerous occasions in a number of our meetings; it is upon the brothers to follow their words with actions ‘for indeed a person’s actions confirm his words or refute them.’
    [10] In closing, we advise them with Allaah’s instruction to us all, as it was His instruction to those who came before us, that being: the instruction to fear Allaah jalla wa ‘azz, and to be conscious of Him privately and publicly, outwardly and inwardly. We say to them, “Know that Allaah comes between a man and his heart”, and no subtlety is hidden from Him, glorified be He.
    One of the clearest signs of this consciousness of Allaah and fearing him is that their call to the people should be sincerely and purely for Allaah jalla wa ‘allaa, its goal being to guide people to the truth – not to themselves. So their goal should not be to dominate others or to gain leadership over them, as was stated by Shaykh Al-Islam Muhaamd b. Abd Al-Wahhab – Allaah have mercy on him – in commentary of the statement of Allaah Most High, “I call to Allaah upon knowledge and insight.” Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Abd Al-Wahhab said, “This verse points out that a person should maintain ikhlas (sincerity and purity of intention), for although many people involve themselves in da’wah, they only do so calling to themselves,” or words to that effect.
    May Allaah honour and send peace and blessings upon His most devout worshipper and Messenger, our Prophet Muhammad, and upon his Family and Companions and all those who follow them be_ihsan , wa al hamdulillah Rabi al a’alameen.
    Written by:
    Muhammad b. Hadi Al-Madkhali
    29 / 2 / 1426
    Signatories:
    Abu Khadeejah Abd Al-Wahid;
    Abu Talhah Dawood Burbank;
    Amjad Rafiq;
    Yusuf Bowers;
    Abu Hakeem Bilal Davis;
    Hasan Somali.

  33. That Yasin dude who made those posts is so pretentious it’s beyond believable. It’s like these guys are in their own little worlds.

  34. As-Salamu ‘alaykum wa rahmatullah.

    @Akh Rasheed and @Akh Aboo Yoosuf: Do you know the brother Sajid? He dropped by my blog once to “advise” me against my post by Abdur Raheem Green (if i remember correctly, or possibly another da’ee) because “we do not know him to be upon the manhaj” (aw kama qal).

    I remember replying to him that to me, there is no problem with Abdur Raheem Green. If he has a problem taking from Abdur Raheem Green, then he’s not obligated to take anything from him because as Imam Malik rahimahullah said, “The statement of a person can be accepted or rejected except the statement of the occupant of this tomb (ie. the Prophet sallAllahu ‘alayhi wa sallam).”

    And Akh Rasheed, i strongly agree with your point when you said:
    “There seem to be those, including Moosaa and some of the [posters] over at salafitalk.net, who seem to be hung up on that foolish notion of having “the correct salafi stance” regarding this issue (something I mentioned in my Salafism, Do You Really Get It? article).”

    We have a similar issue, the likes of these brothers, here in my country. Sometimes, I feel like telling them in the face, “how do you know if actually i’m right and you’re not?”

    I was “advised” once against “controversial issues” (in their eyes), that i should refer these matters to Ustadh Fulan and Ustadh Fulan (2 reliable du’at here, usually made as reference regarding the manhaj).

    I replied to him, “just because you never see me consulting them or hearing anything from them, doesn’t mean I didn’t refer to them for advice.”

    I’m really getting tired of these brothers who seem to think that they’re upon the “correct Salafi stance” when they’re only studying under 1 or 2 ustadhs and not really mixing with the community, rather only among themselves.

    Which was my point when I said I can really relate to what you wrote about becoming a “salafi burnout” or as you’d say, faded.

    Wallahu al-Musta’an.

  35. Btw, whoever bumped that old post from 2002 on salafitalk filled lies and misinformation about me, thanks!

    Well, the post that bumped the thread has finally been approved by the ST admins. Turns out some [dude] with the username “zejd.peqin” has, in the typical fashion expected from these people, decided to post clipped portions from an exchange I had with “Alban” here on my blog.

    These people have no sense of what real manhood is (having a penis doesn’t necessarily make you a man!!!). Msg to “zejd.peqin” be a man and show your audience the entire exchange, which can be found here.

  36. Aboo Yoosuf says:

    WaAlaikumSalam Warahmatullah brother Farhan. I don’t know of Sajid al-Hindi except what he mentions about himself and what he posts and comments on salafitalk, youtube, islaam.ca and elsewhere. There has been a number of fitnah-type comments and posts he made which I could elaborate but I’d refrain from seeking out his faults and making this comment excessively long. Perhaps Allah will open his heart and make him realise that the fitaan he has aided in spreading before he points fingers at his brothers who are a lot more knowledgeable and closer to the Mashayikh than he (and most like him) is.

    The talibul ‘ilm brother Abuz Zubayr Shadeed Muhammad from USA also frequently speak about the hastiness and improper way that these (internet) people conduct themselves on forums and sites. Only yesterday on Paltalk, Shadeed Muhammad spoke about students of knowledge spreading and preoccupying themselves with Scholarly issues. Previously, he mentioned about the sad incident he witnessed outside a Masjid between two Salafi brothers disputing on al-Ma’ribi issue while they have entered Salafiyyah only few months or years back! In fact, most of my posts here wouldn’t be needed if there was not any blatant distortion from Sajid’s (and his likes) side.

    I’d personally say, as preceded by Shaykh Salih as-Suhaymi and Shadeed Muhammad in general terms, that those who suffer from “Salafi Burnout” are those who keep up with refutation on so-and-so (while so-and-so not being a Takfiri or Sufi and their likes) on internet forums such as salafitalk, until the fitnah engulfs them and throws themselves outside of Salafiyyah (and even Islam sometimes).

    RG’s edit: Edited at poster’s request.

  37. Ibn_Ahmed says:

    Assalamu alaykum, Brothers, May Allah’aza’wa’jal Bless you all.
    This is just some general additions and a reminder to myself first and then to you brothers,
    1. I know it gets frustrating at times, but do not to let the oppression of others lead you to injustice: “O You Who Believe, Stand up firmly for Allah as just witnesses; and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just, that is closer to piety, and Fear Allah, Verily Allah is well acquainted with what you do.”

    2.Shaikh Suhaymi advices the Salafi’s (especially the young minded Hasty ones) in one of the clips (Posted by Abu Yusuf) to read a book by Shaikh Ibrahim Ruhaaylee – Advice to the youth of Ahlus-Sunnah – [Translated by Abuz Zubayr Shadeed Muhammad]. This book is very beneficial especially in regards to turmoil and the way of it.

    3.To those who post on forums please READ Shaikh Suhaymi’s fatwa in regards to internet forums: http://forum.athaar.org/showthread.php?t=10 .
    This is an imperative advice from the Shaikh especially due to the fact that Allah’aza’wa’jal mentions: “And do not pursue that of which you have no knowledge. Indeed the hearing, the sight and the heart – about all of those, [one] will be questioned.”

    Again, just a general reminder [not aimed at anyone], BarakAllahufeekum.

  38. Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah.

    1. I know it gets frustrating at times, but do not to let the oppression of others lead you to injustice: “O You Who Believe, Stand up firmly for Allah as just witnesses; and let not the enmity and hatred of others make you avoid justice. Be just, that is closer to piety, and Fear Allah, Verily Allah is well acquainted with what you do.”

    May Allah reward and bless you, brother Ibn Ahmed, for the reminder. I guess, I let the weariness I feel allow me to be a bit looser with my tongue (pen/keyboard) than I normally would be in most circumstances. I’ll edit my posts accordingly to remove inappropriate comments.

  39. Abul Qayyim Faheem ibn Talut says:

    As salaamu alaikum,

    Going back to the original post about Moosa making mountains out of Bilal’s molehills, when I had first read the post, here are some of the things that struck me (and I had intended to repsond to a response of my response to Moosaa’s ‘student’ or whoever he is in Pittsburgh, but then I realized it’s a waste of time, and I write this with the hopes that some of the common people really start to develop some thinking:

    Moosaa said:

    “After repeated requests for me to clarify the errors in the writings of Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips,…”

    Question (directed to some of the commoners who take these people as references for ‘the correct salafi stance’): Why is it we hear people from their camp claiming to always referring back to the major scholars, but yet you are requesting from him to clarify someone’s errors? If he is in the land of the scholars, then why don’t you tell him to refer it back to them? Why would he be considered someone as a source for clarification?

    Moosaa also said:

    “I hope that the author will take note of them, accept them as humble advice and correct his mistakes.”

    Why would you have to HOPE that he would take note of them? If there was at least an iota of sincerity involved in this clarification, then we are in the communication age! You could have easily written, emailed, went to his blog or website, Facebook, Twitter, any of the other numerous modes of communication, but yet, you have taken it upon yourself to handle a scholarly affair, all the while you (and others) CLAIM to refer everything back to the scholars (but people are still referring to you)! His man in Pittsburg said it was REQUIRED to address corrections in public. Yes, this is a PRINCIPLE, not a rule of law of the Shari’ah. So, if you had given naseehah in private as well, there would have been no harm.

    It’s funny, when we see these claims about people portraying themselves as being absolutely on the truth, but like in the email I had received, it mentioned about how Bilal’s books (his Islamic Studies books, from which this ‘grave error’ about suicide is extracted, is used as part of the curriculum I think in Kuwait) are the most widely circulated books in English. How come no one contacts YOU about a curriculum, especially when you have ‘the correct salafi stance’?! Bilal made a real deviant movement run for cover with just ONE of his books (The Ansaar Cult), what have you done except expel other Salafees, some of them your teachers (remember Muhammad Jibaaly being your “father in manhaj”?) As they say nowadays, fall back, and stay in your lane!

    Akh Rasheed, I may have been a little out of pocket, and may Allaah forgive me, so of course this is subject to editing!

  40. Like I said in my original article, there are so many things one can say about Moosaa’s criticism. And while I don’t think it’s necessary for him to have contacted Bilal directly and in private before publishing his piece, I do find it suspect how he chose to address the matter, accusing and basically crucifying Bilal instead of making excuses for him. But then again, this sort of suspect behaviour has been seen from Moosaa time and time again for years, e.g., his public witch hunt of Zahid Rasheed several years back when the turmoil concerning Shaikh Abul-Hasan was still fresh (I think I still have those posts and public requests for dirt on Zahid saved somewhere). It almost seems like he’s got this odd exaggerated case of guilt and is continually trying to distance himself from some of his past actions or do certain things in order to prove to the SP gang that he’s on their side, e.g., his completely unnecessary reference to Shaikh Rabi’ in this recent article (surely he could have sufficed with quoting from the classical books he quoted from) and his apparent need to absolve himself of any wrong doing in stating that Bilal’s book was already in place and that he did not willingly choose to teach from it.

  41. Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Farhan.

    I don’t know this Sajid character either. I only see his name in several places, be it forums or blogs. He always seems to be parroting the common SP/TROID slogans, cutting and pasting the same old rhetoric to push and promote their perverted mentality. Like others before him (e.g., Ekbal Hussain–anyone remember that guy? Hahaha), he seems to be just as ignorant and clueless of what Salafism actually is.

    I’d ignore him as it’d be a massive waste of your time trying to debate him–he’d probably cower from a debate with you anyhow (kind of like how he and others did on Musa Millington’s blog) and then try to use what you say against you on other public forums.

  42. Yusuf says:

    “Part of glorifying Allah is honouring the grey-haired Muslim.” [Saheeh Abi Dawood (no. 4053)]

    Dr. Bilal Philips is our elder, older than some of our own fathers and Allah has guided many of these same exact brothers to Islam on his hands. So imagine, he gets a share of every good deed they perform, while their sins and abuse of him stay with them. Before anyone gets excited, this isn’t said to make people think he is free of errors for none of us is infallible, but anyone who seeks to reduce respect and love for this man on the basis of, at the most, a few innocent mistakes in some of his books or speeches should fear Allah.

    Mu’aadh ibn Jabal (radiyallahu ‘anhu) said: “O Prophet of Allah, will we be held accountable for what we say” He (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said: “May your mother be bereaved of you, O Mu’aadh! Is there anything that causes people to be dragged on their faces – or he said – on their noses into Hellfire other than the harvests of their tongues?”

    All one has to say is that the book contains a phrase concerning suicide that is vague which requires more elaboration. That’s it.

    Amazing the time we live in when suicide, death, and even entering the hellfire, whether temporarily or eternally, can be discussed in so much detail and yet some brothers still can’t manage to get past their own selves. We ask Allah to protect us from knowledge that doesn’t benefit, a heart that don’t have khushoo’, and a nafs that doesn’t get full and satisfied.

    Here’s some videos from his latest trip to Toronto..

    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6232158
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6234072
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6234936

  43. Shukran Aboo Yoosuf and Rasheed for the advice. Barakallahu feekum.

  44. ilyas says:

    As salamu alikum ikhwaan

    Read the following and see how they throw away the advice of the scholars:

    Call to Allah with Good Manners!

    The caller to Allah, the student of knowledge, and all those who direct the people and advise them, they are in need of taking the Messenger of Allah peace be upon him, as an example. As an example in his ‘‘Aqeedah, his Manhaj and his manners.

    If these things are complete in a caller, or close to completion, and his Da’wah is presented to the people in its most beautiful and most complete form, then this Da’wah will be successful, Allah willing.

    And if one of these issues were to be absent, and from them his patience, wisdom, kindness, softness and other things that are necessary and required by the Da’wah of the Messengers, peace & blessings be upon them, things that we have to use, but many people are unaware of.

    Then the Salafi Da’wah and its people would be harmed if one were to be unaware of these manners, and all that is presented to the people is what they dislike, and what they hate from harshness and so on. These things are hated even in the worldly matters, so what do you think about the matters of the Deen!? How does one study?

    You study the biography of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him.

    You study his manners, you study his ‘Aqeedah, his Manhaj.

    Some people do not care for the ‘Aqeedah or the Manhaj of the Messenger of Allah, peace & blessings be upon him, so they follow other beliefs, and other methodologies that Shaytaan has made up for those whom Allah has disgraced from the people of innovations and misguidance.

    Others are granted success by Allah in following the correct ‘Aqeedah, but they lose the correct Manhaj.

    Others are granted success in following the correct ‘Aqeedah and the Manhaj, but in their conduct and their behaviour, they lose both the ‘Aqeedah and the Manhaj.

    The truth is with them, they are the people of the truth, they have the correct ‘Aqeedah and the correct Manhaj, but their behaviour and their manner in giving Da’wah harms the Da’wah and destroys it.

    So beware of opposing the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him, in his ‘Aqeedah, Manhaj and in how he used to give Da’wah.

    Follow the Prophetic directions that call to wisdom, patience, forgiveness, tolerance, softness as well as other things and understand them well.

    Know that they are necessary in our Da’wah to the people. Do not just take one side of Islam and leave off the rest.

    Do not just use one way of giving Da’wah, being negligent of the rest of the ways, because this is harmful to the Deen of Allah, the Glorified, the Most High, as it is harmful to the Da’wah and its people.

    By Allaah, the Da’wah did not start in recent times, or in any other time, except through people who are scholars, the wise who represent the Manhaj of the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him, and who practice it and act upon it according to their abilities, and Allah, the Glorified, the Most High has benefited the people through them, and the Salafi Da’wah spread to all corners of the world. The Da’wah was spread with the manners, the knowledge and the wisdom.

    These days we see that the Salafi Da’wah is going backwards, may Allah bless you, because it has lost the wisdom of these people.

    First and foremost, it has lost the wisdom of the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, and his patience, his forgiveness and his kindness.

    By Allah, ‘Aaishah, may Allah be pleased with her, had insulted a Jew, so the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said ‘O ‘Aaishah, Allah loves kindness in everything’. This Hadeeth was authentically collected by Bukhaaree and Muslim.

    This same Hadeeth, if a scholar were to mention it today to the youth in order to direct them into following the correct Manhaj, they would say that this is Tamyee’ (watering the Da’wah down, being soft).

    They would say that this is Tamyee’! Likewise, if you mentioned wisdom, patience, tolerance, forgiveness, kindness, softness, things that are from the necessities of the Da’wah, and from the tools that we use to bring the people into the correct manhaj so that they may enter into the Deen of Allah, the Glorified, the Most High in masses (they would say that this is Taymee’).

    Now, they use deterrence which chases the people away and from amongst you there are those who chase the people away. The Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him said, ‘Make things easy, and do not make things difficult. And give good tidings, and do not chase the people away’.

    O brothers, these people are unaware, for by Allah, if they were aware it would be incumbent upon them to call the Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, himself a Mumayyee’, and the Companions, and the scholars of this Ummah, based upon this destructive harshness that destroyed the Salafi Da’wah, they would have had to have called the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him, himself who called to wisdom, patience, kindness and softness.

    They would have had to called him, peace be upon him, a Mumayyee.

    I seek Allah forgiveness! By Allah, they did not mean this, and it is not their intention, but they are unaware, so it is upon them to understand what is built upon these rulings.

    By Allah, we write, we give advice, we debate, we call the people to Allah and they consider us Mumayyee. Why? B
    ecause they hear us say ‘wisdom, softness, kindness’, and we say this now because we saw that harshness destroyed the Salafi Da’wah and tore apart its people.
    So what are we supposed to do my brothers?
    If we see a fire, what are we supposed to do? Pour gasoline onto it so that it gets bigger, or are we to get something that will put it out?
    May Allah bless you.

    So I have to, and this is obligatory upon me, and I have been saying this before today, when I saw this destruction, this calamity, I had to say “Brothers, have softness!” Now this harshness has turned towards the people of the Sunnah themselves.
    They left off the people of Bid’ah, and they turned to the people of the Sunnah with this destructive harshness, which contains oppression, and all types of false rules.

    So beware! Beware of following this way that will destroy you, the Salafi Da’wah, and its people.

    Call to Allaah with all that you are able to, with proofs and with evidences, wherever you go. Say: “Allah, Tabaaraka wa T’ala said…”, “The Messenger of Allah, peace be upon him, said…” and after that, use the sayings of the Imams of guidance to help you in your Da’wah, those whom both the people of the Sunnah and the people of Bid’ah consider to be Imams.

    al-‘Allaamah, ash-Shaykh, Rabee bin Haadee al-Madkhalee (hafithahullah)

  45. This is just a general word of advice to everyone regarding posting comments to my blog. If you wish to post entire articles, just link to where it’s found online rather than cutting and pasting it here. Doing so will make things a lot less cluttered, especially considering the fact that this isn’t a discussion forum, per se. May Allah reward and bless you all.

  46. ilyas says:

    sorry, will not do it again.

  47. No need to apologize, bro. I just want to make things easier to read for the people who visit here to read the comments. The WordPress theme I’m using has a fairly narrow column for text, so longer texts end up getting streched further down the page; it might make it intimidating for some to see some mahusive scroll bar on the side of their screens, heh (Abdulmonem’s commented on how long the What’s the Deal with QSS?! post is already, which has some 120+ comments already posted to it).

  48. For those who don’t visit Dr. Bilal’s blog, he put up a comment yesterday addressing the double standard I showed in my article about Moosaa’s criticism. Those who wish to read it can do so here.

  49. tuwaylib says:

    jazak allah khair for clarifying the errors of musa richardson..indeed allah defends those who believe and i think in this case using brothers like you.

    also i noticed troid has not indulged in character assassination as of late, but dr bilal mentioned them in his response, would you know if their stance has changed regarding this jarh and tajreeh.

  50. May Allah reward and bless you too, tuwaylib.

    Regarding TROID, I don’t see any reason to believe that they’ve changed their ways. They’re the ones who sent out Moosaa Richardson’s criticism on their mailing list, which is how I first got wind of it. They also sent out Moosaa’s translations of the suicide verdicts issued by Shaikhs Ibn Baz, Ibn Uthaimin and al-Fawzan.

  51. May Allah reward and bless the sister who posted this to Bilal’s blog: yet another example the same “dangerous mistake” from one of Moosaa’s buddies, this time Maaz Qureshi, who translated the same treatise from Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin (i.e., Bi Ayy Aql wa Din). Peep pg. 13 of the PDF. I wonder what kind of excuses guys like Sajid Chauhan will make for their beloved, heh.

  52. ilyas says:

    As salamu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu

    The latest from Moosa Richardson:

    “Guidelines Regarding the Texts Mentioning Kufr, a Negation of Faith or Entry to Paradise, or Punishment in the Fire for Certain Sins”

    It supprises me how the spubs crew can to so much spin on an topic, and still make them self look big?

    Has he lloked into other statements of Dr Bilal Phillips? Or is he just sticking to his gun, as he has fired it and deos not want to admit his mistake?

    Dr Bilal Phillips has published several books since then, on issues of aqeedah and other stuff, especially:

    Mujmal Masaa’il al-Eemaan al-‘Ilmiyyah fee Usool al-‘Aqeedah as-Salafiyyah

    GENERAL ISSUES OF FAITH FROM THE FUNDAMENTALS OF THE SALAFEE CREED’

    By Shaykhs Husayn al-‘Awaayshah, Muhammad Moosaa Aal Nasr, Saleem ‘Eed al-Hilaalee, ‘Alee Hasan al-Halabee and Mash-hoor Hasan

    Translated and Annotated by Dr. Abu Ameenah Bilal Philips”

    Has be bothered to read the book?

    If he did, the First Chapter Deals with the Issue of Imaan,the Kufur, etc.. and other chapters like the chapter on Khwaarij, etc..

    Read or download:

    http://www.bilalphilips.com/images/publications/Salafee_Aqeedah.doc

    I think it is a waste of time trying to clarify issues, as Moosa richardson and the sp crews of the western hemisphere are a bunch of insincere bigots.

    May Allah keep us all upon the straight path, and that we defend our brothers honour anywhere in the world, and that we by just within ourselves firstly and then to our fellows muslim brothers and sisters.

  53. It’s intellectual and academic dishonesty and partisanship at it’s finest: create a number of straw man arguments to criticize the supposed deviant with, ignore any of the real academic issues raised by those in disagreement, rinse and repeat.

  54. “Intellectual and academic dishonesty”.. that’s the phrase i was looking for..

    read a similar phrase in Malay.. roughly translated as “crime in knowledge”..

  55. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    i have not been able to acsses bilal philips blog, any one haveing the same problem?

  56. Had no problem accessing it just now. Maybe try again later?

  57. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    its working now?

  58. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    my bad i meant to say it is working now!

  59. Abu Amatullah says:

    Musa Richardson on salafitalk (we know you read this forum so please answer like a man, just give us the email, forum etc who sent you point 16):

    “The article has created quite a bit of discussion on different forums. Here are some of the other reactions to the article that have reached me so far:

    1-we shouldn’t speak about the scholars
    2-the author meant kufr doona kufr
    ……
    16-the “concept” being “equivilent to kufr” doesn’t mean it is kufr ”

    Let us know who claimed point 16 .. or is this just another one of your twists to create something out of thin air and then beat it to the ground? Surely you know the difference between what you quoted above and what someone may have explained to mean concept being equivalent to kufr doesn’t mean one is a kafir ..

    ‘being

  60. Musa Richardson on salafitalk (we know you read this forum so please answer like a man, just give us the email, forum etc who sent you point 16):

    Good luck getting an answer from Moosaa, bro. I doubt he’ll entertain us with that information. After all, he still hasn’t addressed the academic dishonesty he’s clearly guilty of. He’s probably satisfied with the fact that he’s already given his blind followers “ammo” to use against those who listen to Bilal’s lectures or read his books.

  61. Mohsin says:

    Hang on a minute…has Musa removed the post ‘refuting’ Dr Bilal Philips?

    hmm, interesting

  62. Ha! That’s funny. The original article’s still on TROID’s site though.

    Edit:: Anyone wanting to verify the statements I’ve quoted from Moosaa’s original article can refer to the link to TROID’s site in footnote no. 1 … and in the case that they remove that too, I have the thread from SalafiTalk saved and can email it to anyone who requests to see it.

  63. Abu Amatullah says:

    Google contains the cached version. I know a person that has thread and downloaded snapshots of all before & after the edits and will take it to a senior sheikh along with Abdulilah’s thread on Abu Usama. The response will be put in due time. No doubt there are lots of corrupt principles and twisting of words to give worst meaning implied by Musa’s post and it is hoped he and Abdulilah will make their clarification open (bayyinu) once they know the sheikh that will be responding.

    The sheikh will be informed that the article is not accessible anymore!

  64. Abu Amatullah says:

    Musa Richardson statement on salafitalk:

    “knowldge of knowing who people are is more important than tawheed”

    will also be taken to the sheikh.

  65. Wow. I missed that one. Moosaa’s really on a roll.

    Edit: I just did a quick Google search on the quote (i.e., knowing people more important than tawhid) and found an old thread from 2007 on the Multaqa Ahl al-Hadith forum started by Ali al-Boriqee. Given that the post where the statement was originally made wasn’t linked to and the fact that it’s quoted in a post made 3 years ago, I think taking such a statement to a shaikh is kind of late; has the same sort of feel as the SP/TROID guys continually bringing Abu Usamah’s old statements about the Saudi Government and using them against him.

  66. Moosaa seems to be making things complicated..

    Akh Rasheed, what do you mean by Abu Usamah’s old statements about the Saudi govt?

  67. Akh Rasheed, what do you mean by Abu Usamah’s old statements about the Saudi govt?

    Several years ago (maybe 10 or so), Abu Usamah gave a sermon where he said some things about the Saudi government (they posted a transcript of the statement on SalafiTalk that you can read here). Some time after, Abu Usamah wrote a retraction and recanted his statements with the email being forwarded on TROID’s mailing list by Maaz Qureshi (who at the time was one of the heads, if not the unofficial head, of TROID—I still have the original email that Maaz sent out).

    Anyhow, when SP/TROID started attacking Abu Usamah openly around the time the turmoil surrounding Shaikh Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribi errupted publicly, they used this statement against him, even though TROID’s own “leader” had sent out Abu Usamah’s retraction on their own mailing list. I called them out on it on SalafiTalk (before I got banned and had my account deleted) posting a copy of the email and a link to TROID’s YahooGroup message archive to prove it. They deleted my post and subsequently both SP and TROID promptly locked their YahooGroup message archives off to the public so that only their administrators could have access to them (just another example of their “model” behaviour).

    Edit: Slight correction after checking my saved threads from SalafiTalk: the copy of the email from Abu Usamah was posted by a friend of mine, while I had posted a link to the TROID YahooGroup message archive … can’t really be sure as the thread I have saved has both those posts deleted. I’ve got the initial reactions saved, which are no longer there—some of which are quite amusing.

  68. Abu Amatullah says:

    Musa Richardson:
    “The Salafees are the Ones who Truly Love the Muslims and are Actively Working in Their Favour
    .
    .
    A Salafee website notified me of a mistake on http://www.bakkah.net, which I fixed and then expressed my thanks to them”

    I guess we are not salafi enough to advise Musa even though he is reading this blog. Hope you express your thanks to this blog too instead of taking your post off.

    Rasheed your right about that quote attributed to Musa, it’s better not to use it as it’s not verified but i wouldn’t be surprised if it’s true because the time and effort they give to peoples mistakes TOTALLY outweighs their posts on aqida.
    Manhaj = backbiting people.
    Check it on salafi talk.

  69. ilyas says:

    As salamu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu

    Are we going to see a Public tawbah from Moosa Richardson?

    Are we going to see a Public Notice from Salafitalk, who allowed the wallowing of moosa richardson, without going to the scholars?

    Who own salafitalk? They need to free themselves from Moosa Richardson?

    Like shaikh Rabee said “Liar/Lying is worse than an Innovator”……. ?

    Allaah the Most High says,

    “Except those who repent and do righteous deeds, and openly declare (the truth which they concealed). These, I will accept their repentance. And I am the One Who accepts repentance, the Most Merciful.” [al-Baqarah:160]

    And from this ayah, and other proofs, the ulemaa derive the conditions of tawbah they are well known:

    1. To make sincere tawbah to Allaah
    2. To abandon the sin from which one is making tawbah
    3. To showing remorse and regret for ones deeds
    4. To vow not to return to the sin ever again
    5. To makes amends if someone’s rights have been violated.

    Make open tawbah for spreading your corruption, openly declare yourselves liars, and refute all of what your tongues have uttered of al-qawl uz-zoor, buhtaan and nameemah.

    Verily, Allaah has forbidden oppression and is not pleased that a Muslim should oppress a kaafir, so how about oppressing a Muslim whose honour Allaah has made great. And in this regard, the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, “Verily, your blood, wealth and honour is forbidden to each of you, just like the sacredness of this day of yours, in this month, in this city (Makkah) of yours”,
    and the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, “Beware of oppression, for oppression will be (layers) of darkness on the Day of Judgement”,
    and Allaah the Exalted said, “Allaah does not oppress with even an atom’s weight…”,
    and He, the Sublime said, “And whoever does an atom’s weight of good will see it, and whoever does an atom’s weight of evil will see it”,
    and the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, as occurs in the hadeeth qudsee, “O My servants. I have made oppression unlawful for myself, and have also made it unlawful amongst you, therefore do not opppress each other..” to the end of the hadeeth.

    O my brothers, do not be hasty in making judgements. For the judges are of three types, as the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, “The judges are three types. Two in the fire and one in Paradise. A man who knew the truth and judged by it, he is in Paradise. And a man who judged for people upon ignorance, and he is in the Fire. And a man who knew the truth but was oppressive in his judgement, he is in the Fire”, reported by the four and also by al-Haakim.

    Also, the Prophet (Sallallaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said in a hadeeth: “The reverence of people should never stop any of you from speaking the truth if you hear or see it.”(This hadeeth is) reported by Ahmed in his Musnad, 50, 53 and 84, with an authentic chain of narration.

    Thats is what has been happening in this blog of brother rasheed…….. Moosa richardson, its a Hadeeth of the prophet…..

    Most of the stuff was taken from salafitalk, here and there…..

  70. Are we going to see a Public tawbah from Moosa Richardson?

    Are we going to see a Public Notice from Salafitalk, who allowed the wallowing of moosa richardson, without going to the scholars?

    I wouldn’t get your hopes up for either of these two things happening, after all, they’re not really known for doing such things.

    In all honesty, however, I couldn’t really care less if Moosaa were to make a public repentance or even acknowledge his embarassing display of ignorance (or intellectual and academic dishonesty). It’s enough for me that the thread has been removed from public viewing, if even only in part (as some of his writings concerning this manufactured error of Bilal Philips’s are still on TROID’s site).

  71. ilyas says:

    Jazak ALlahu Khairan Bro Moosa Richardson, I pray that you take your own words and implement them.

    What type of nafs do you have?

    Amaroo bi soo…….. if not….. then we are:

    “The Salafees are always advising, correcting, and admonishing each other with good manners and true brotherhood.
    But occasionally, we find someone in the ranks that loves their status more than the Truth, and they refuse to correct their errors.
    So we may have to correct their errors for them to help them be free of responsibility on the Day of Judgement.
    And every now and then, you find someone who loves his position and status so much, that they refuse to be corrected even when all the people see their errors.
    Then, their contradictions to the Salafee manhaj become clear to the people, so they claim that the Salafees have been out to get them.
    The Salafees are not out to get people.
    The Salafees love the Muslims and are actively working for their guidance, like no other group of Muslims, by Allaah’s Grace and Permission.
    They are the most merciful of the people to the people.
    And this is why their tongues are fierce against those who are misleading the Muslims.
    And this is why they point out the specific dangers on the road, because they love the Muslims and want good for them, wa lillaahil-hamd.

    And if there is hatred in our hearts for those who cause corruption and confusion, spreading doubts about our ‘ulamaa’ and the manhaj of the Salaf, and this hatred is found on our tongues as well, then we thank Allaah for giving us this blessed EEMAAN.”

    I do not know what quran or the sunnah you have been reading?

    If someone does wrong to us? that we do the same to them?

    what manhaj is this?

    Salafee should be the shining example, but like you said you are blessed with this imaan of hatred!…..

    I bet this post will disappear.

    “The Salafees are the Ones who Truly Love the Muslims and are Actively Working in Their Favor”

    http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=6&Topic=2830

    Another dimwit wrote:

    “Indeed, where else can one find such true brotherhood, love, happiness and love for good for others other than among the Salafees?”

    Well not in salafitalk? May in other places, but definitly not in salafitalk.

  72. Looks like the thread’s back up, albeit with some posts missing. I’ll compare when I get home to see what’s been edited out.

    Edit: Did a quick skim of the current thread and the one before it was taken down … looks like only a couple of posts put up by that Yasin dude were deleted. Don’t know if any of the other content was edited or not though.

  73. Here’s something amusing. Some guy posting under the username “IbnNathaniel” posted to Moosaa’s thread regarding the guidelines regarding the texts of promise (of reward) and threats (of punishment) (here). He posted a link to the very article of Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad’s I referred to in an earlier comment (here). What’s amusing about this is the very portion I quoted in that earlier comment: the statement where Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin promotes the supposed heretic priniciple Shaikh Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribi is accused of bringing. Here’s Moosaa’s exact statement regarding this “heretic principle” in his thread on Bilal’s “mistake”:

    This kind of interaction with people’s statements is actually one of the innovations brought by Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribee, wherein the principle of “mujmal and mufassal” is applied to the speech of people, to explain away clear errors.

    Btw, those interested in reading this artcle of Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin’s in English, I’m currently working on translating it (very, very slowly … I actually began translating it a 2-3 weeks ago). I’ll be posting it when I’m done, Allah willing. Hopefully, it won’t take too long to finish as I’m being quite lazy about it, heh.

  74. Alban says:

    These people have no sense of what real manhood is (having a penis doesn’t necessarily make you a man!!!)

    Akhee Rasheed, i wonder myselef, where did you leart this Lofty Akhlaq?

    Is this the way you implement the booklet “Rifqan Ahlus-Sunnah bil-Ahlis-Sunnah”???

  75. That statement you quoted from me is no worse than anything that’s come from another of your beloved shaikhs, Yahya al-Hajuri, whose shown much worse manners and etiquettes than I display in that short quote.

  76. Alban says:

    Akhee Rasheed, its enough to judge your personallity from you pinochio avatar, from the filthy pictures you attach in your blog, from your filthy vocabolary, from you filthy ethics with the Ulamaa, and especially from your Hadadi methods of debating and clashing the words of the Ulamaa.

    Trying to demonize the opponent is verily a diabolique method!

    “That statement you quoted from me is no worse than anything that’s come from another of your beloved shaikhs, Yahya al-Hajuri, whose shown much worse manners and etiquettes than I display in that short quote.”

    Even though i don’t think Shaykh Yahya its not 100% an evil person, you judged me basing in your prejudices!

    Alhamdouliah, there is a Day of Reckoning!

  77. Alban says:

    You won Akhee Gonzales!

  78. Won? I wasn’t aware this was a contest.

    Btw, brother, drugs are haram.

  79. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    Chill out brother alban, oh yeah have you ever read Rifqan Ahl as sunnah bi ahl as sunnah, casue i dont think you benafited from it

  80. ar.m says:

    assalamu alaikum

    confused, so, in conclusion? the one who commits suicide will not be in hell forever? is still muslim? janaza is performed? please clarify.

    Jzk, ws

  81. Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, “ar.m”.

    I really hope this isn’t taken the wrong way, but perhaps you missed the part in the article where I said (emphasis added),

    I also don’t really want to focus on what the correct view is regarding the one who commits suicide as I haven’t really looked too deeply into it to be able to confidently determine such.

    The point of the article wasn’t to determine which of the various opinions the scholars from the People of the Sunnah have given for these hadiths is correct. The point was to show the intellectual and academic dishonesty Moosaa Richardson was guilty of in his criticism of Dr. Bilal Philips.

    While I have looked further into the issue since initially writing this article, I still haven’t come to a solid conclusion as to what I personally believe to be the correct view, as I can see that most of the explanations mentioned by Ibn Hajar hold validity and do not necessarily contradict any of the People of the Sunnah’s well established tenets. I do, however, am inclined to the opinion where Ibn Hajar states that “it was said the meaning is that this is his reward, but Allah might be generous to the monotheists and expel them from the Fire for their monotheism,” meaning that the legislated punishment for suicide is eternity in Hell, but that Allah will grant the believers from among those who committed suicide repreave and lift the punishment by virtue of their monotheism.

  82. ar.m says:

    my bad, to be honest this reading was way above my level, barakAllahfeek for replying.

  83. No problem, ar.m. May Allah bless you as well.

    That is one thing about many of these issues brought forth by brothers like Moosaa. Many times, they try to paint a black and white picture of the issue, whatever it maybe, when in reality, there’s a lot more to it than what they’re showing us. The issue regarding suicide is quite complex when you think about it because of all the different factors that come into play, some of which can be seen in some of the opinions expressed by the imams I’ve quoted in my article. For example, there’s the question about where the person’s frame of mind was when they committed suicide, e.g., was the person sane or not at the time of the act? There’s also a question of whether they knew it to be forbidden or not, i.e., did they do it out of ignorance thinking that it was ok?

    In any case, if you’ve got any other questions about this or any of the other articles on my blog, feel free to ask either through email (if you don’t feel comfortable asking in public … my email address can be found on the “My Work” page) or via the appropriate comments sections.

  84. Muhsin says:

    Looks like brother Shadeed Muhammad has decided to stand alongside SP:
    http://maktabah-alfawaaid.blogspot.com/2010/06/shadeed-muhammad-frees-himself-from.html

    a strange position to take

  85. I can’t say I’m surprized. To be quite honest, it’s been a while now that I’ve sensed that sort of vibe from him. One of my friends who knows the brother told me not too long ago that the brother was upon the same exaggerated understanding of Salafism as SP/TROID et al. (and to be frank, Madeenah.com too).

    It’s just too bad that the brother decided to write up this statement and throw himself into the mix of all the controversial garbage politics these guys play.

  86. when will we be absolved from this hizbiyyah-in-disguise trial..

  87. ilyas says:

    I never seen ignorance and hizbiyah from a “educated” fool, why i say he is a fool, because, eveything he said against madeenah.com, (which we still wait to see the proof.)is applied and implemented by sp/troid?

    Also why is abu khadeejah mentioned?
    Name others who are involved?
    is he the one pulling the strings of dawah slafiyah in the west?
    The honour of abu khadeehaj is more precious “stern/harsh” williams, then the ulema and the student ilm, the vile mouthed individual who proagated in the west, his ignornace and stench got to you and from the sheeps and farmers in the USA?
    It makes me sick, how these “graduates” are the most fearfull of people rather than allah? if he feared allah, then he would not have said the following in his post:

    “I started to see that the position(s) I held about people were really not warranted. I was aware of the personal incongruous attacks made against the brothers at Salafi Publications and their efforts in the da’wah. Those articles that were posted tarnished the honor of our brothers and even some of the scholars requested for those articles to be removed from the site. Without any consideration for the da’wah as a whole in the West, this opportunity paved the way for a launch of attacks and discredits directed towards the brothers at Salafi Publications from various websites, ultimately damaging the way that people viewed them as well as the da’wah of Salafiyah.”

    Who gives honour to this dawah salafiyyah?

    who gives victory to dawah salafiyyah?

    Who damaged? how people dawah salafiyyah in the west?

    Shadeed sorry brother you need to take the finger out of your back side and smell the crap your fingers typed?

    You visited, sp as they are ONLY salafies? I said to a brother taalib alexander in uk, that if you came he needs to visit brothers from various areas and not only with the SCUM of birmingham, but looks like i was right, “birds alike, fly together”.

    Dawud adib, said that we judge salafiyah by sp, for which he got refuted, and looks like you made the same mistake…… make tawbah, free yourself from sp and their cronies.

  88. ilyas says:

    http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1069

    “Included in this advice, is [a narration] that reached us in which Dawood Adeeb showed Ghuloo towards Salafi Publications; that they have with them a stamp of approval upon everybody whom they issue a ruling upon, whether it be a recommendation or dispraise. This is blameworthy Ghuloo, so [we spoke about him] from this perspective, as it relates to the brother Dawood.”

    Allah said “honour belongs to allah and his messenger and the belivers”

    The prophet said “whoever wants to be heard will be made to be heard, and whoever wants to show off allah will make a show of him”

    Bro Shadeed Williams take your words to Shaikh Khalid ar Raddadee, and see your guloo!

    “Dawood was not spoken about specifically, rather it was an advice directed to Salafi Publications and those who are in charge of it, which consisted of some of the issues that they fell into from Ghuloo,”

    They had no affect on ddawah salafiyyah? come on man, they are the cause for the demise in dawah salafiyah and its negativity!

  89. Abdullah Al hallak says:

    May Allah reward Dr. Bilal Philips:

    “I advise these brothers of ours to spend their time beneficially, learning the basics, studying Arabic, tajweed, the classic works of ‘aqeedah, such as al-‘Itisaam, al-Usool ath-Thalaathah, Kitaab at-Tawheed, al-‘Aqeedah al-Waasitiyyah, al-‘Aqeedah at-Tahaawiyyah, etc. under scholars in the original Arabic. And, rather than trying to take some quotes here and there from great scholars like Shaykhs Nasirud-Deen al-Albaanee, Bin Baaz, ‘Uthaymeen, and Muqbil, may Allaah have mercy on them all, I recommend that they actually listen to and study their tapes. Al-hamdulillah, there are many commentaries of Shaykh ‘Uthaymeen on the various books of ‘aqeedah, and tafseers, etc and Silsilat al-Hudaa wan-Noor, the tapes of Shaykh al-Albaanee, rahimahullaah, are available in the hundreds for them to actually listen to from beginning to end.”

    Great advice for us and them

  90. Yusuf says:

    In the meantime, would the brothers at SP like to explain why exactly Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan has written an introduction to Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid’s latest book Bid’ah I’aadah Fahm an-Nusoos praising both the book and him greatly, as can be seen here?

    Wait a second . . . I thought al-Munajjid was the deviant mufti of the Qutubis and Surooris???

    Or, perhaps Shaykh al-Fawzaan is “ignorant of his affair” . . ?

  91. i just saw a video on a speech of Sheikh Yahya al-Hajooree on Youtube, in which someone commented that Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee went to Dammaaj and freed himself of Sheikh Ali Hasan al-Halabi, Sheikh Abu Ishaq al-Huwaynee and Sheikh Muhammad Hassan. Can anyone verify this?

    And what is the factor and reason behind this issue?

  92. A Maldivian brother posted one of Shaikh Salim’s statements here some time ago, which I deleted. You can see the exchange here.

    I chose not to discuss these things in public due to the personal nature behind these issues. I will state this much here on my blog: Shaikh Salim and Shaikh Muhammad Hassan have had a beef dating back to a QSS conference both attended in the US years back (I’m not sure what year exactly … I was only told of the incident and don’t remember when it occurred). There is also a beef between Shaikh Salim and the rest of the Jordanian shaikhs associated with the al-Albani Centre surrounding some worldly issues Shaikh Salim is accused of falling into. I’m pretty sure that if you do enough searching, you’ll find some discussion about what’s going on between them on various forums.

    If you wish, contact me via email. Otherwise, I won’t be approving any posts concerning the controversy between these shaikhs and will delete any comments that detail what’s going on.

  93. Oh yes, you’ve mentioned before. Since it’s personal, let’s not discuss it here. But it’s sad that some people manipulate personal matters and make it into a manhaj issue.

    Wallahu al-Musta’an.

    PS. I’ll email you if necessary.

  94. Abu Amatullah says:

    Another mountain out of a mole hill by SP but Good response to them from Madeenah.com. Shadeed Muhammed signed this too. Maybe he has forgotten that SP started the criticism on Madeenah.com first as is usual from them but now he has made taubah for what?


    Confusion about Voting?

    All praise is due to Allaah (alone), the Lord of the worlds, and may the salaat and salutations be upon the final Messenger sent to the Jinn and Mankind, Muhammad, his family and all of his noble companions.

    To proceed…

    Since the recent publication of the speech of our Noble Scholars regarding the issue of voting for the lesser of two harms, we have received numerous enquiries seeking clarity in regards to what we have published on Madeenah.Com and the confusion that arose due to what some of our brothers have published regarding a similar topic.

    In light of this, we would like to inform the reader that what follows of our words is not designed to promote either of the two or more opinions regarding voting for the lesser of two harms, nor should they serve to persuade the reader as to which of them is the preponderant (Raajih) opinion as it is only the Scholars who have the authority to do so regarding such great matters.

    Hence, we will restrict this advice to the following points while firstly asking Allaah ‘Azza wa Jall for Ikhlaas and accuracy in statement and action and imploring Him for His Tawfeeq:

    Firstly, the verdicts that were translated on Madeenah.Com regarding voting only address a specific situation and this was clearly stated. This is the situation whereby the Muslims who are governed by non-Muslims find themselves in a position where a number of candidates are standing for election, and one of them is to be elected to rule over them whether they approve, vote or not.

    In this specific case therefore, is it permissible to vote for the candidate who Muslims believe carries the lesser harm or not? This is the issue that was being addressed at Madeenah.Com.

    Rebutting this verdict with more general verdicts about the impermissibility of democratic elections and implying that this is what Madeenah.Com is promoting only serves to prove that some individuals have not really understood what the Scholars are saying.

    None of the Scholars are saying that voting or elections are permissible; they are all in agreement that they are prohibited, hence the principle “lesser of two harms/evils”.

    Therefore, had the Scholars believed this was permissible it would not be regarded as a Mafsadah (‘harm/evil’).

    So the meaning of this principle is illustrated as follows: Which of the two harms/evils is greater?

    i) The harm/evil of voting?

    or

    ii) Refraining from doing so and subsequently drawing the harm of having the worst of the candidates ruling the Muslims?

    The question is: Which of these two would draw more harm to the Muslims?

    Nobody has said or is saying that voting, elections and Democracy as a whole is permissible.

    Secondly, using the method of inserting names such as “Dr. Safar”, “Abdur Rahmaan Abdul Khaaliq” or “heads of Hizbiyyah” (as occurs in the articles entitled: “The [True and Accurate] Reality of al-Albaanee’s Position on Voting” and “ELECTIONS & VOTING: What do the Scholars say?”) is nothing less than a concerted attempt at bullying those who hold the opinion of its permissibility such as to make it appear as if they are in agreement with Dr. Safar al-Hawaalee, Ikhwaanees and their like. However, the reality is that they are actually following the same opinion as our Salafee Scholars in their stance. During this discourse, the different positions of Salafee Scholars have been presented to the Muslims but the aforementioned tactics have only served to belittle the Scholars themselves. After all, it is they (the Scholars) who hold this opinion, so the rebuttal is more so towards them than those who have translated their speech or published it.

    This is not indicative of a knowledge based approach to the issue at all. Such an approach is contrary to that which is essential for the betterment of brotherhood. In addition, it is a form of transgression, and the Salafees are the most just of people in dealing with the people as affirmed by Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah. This is what Shaykh Sulaymaan ar-Ruhaylee said about such tactics, at a time when another group of Muslims were using this same tactic to force others to boycott Danish products:

    “…the issue of great importance is that one should not transgress upon others, label as sinners those who disagree…intimidation must not be applied in this affair…this is contradictory to the Manhaj of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) in being just and beneficent. Transgression is never permitted in any circumstance.”

    Let us consider for a moment, that the other party concerned was to engage in the same behaviour and thus accuse those who refrain from voting of following the opinion of Takfeeris or the Khawaarij and their like. The result would be much unnecessary name-calling surrounding an issue where both opinions are ascribed to our noble and beloved Salafee Scholars.

    It should be noted that there is much to be said about the honesty and sincerity of those who have assumed a position of responsibility in conveying the speech of the Scholars. They have seen it fit to employ such tactics when publishing such articles and allowed them to circulate amongst the Muslims, wAllaahul-Musta’aan.

    Such behaviour is totally void of reverence and respect for the Ijtihaad of the Ulamaa of Ahlus-Sunnah and only illustrates that those employing these tactics are unaware of how to deal with issues of Ijtihaad in which our Salafee Scholars differ. This is indicative of not having benefited from the Scholars and therefore lacking the opportunity to learn their manners and how they deal with their brothers and fellow Scholars in similar issues; Manners that cannot be acquired by merely reading books or listening to cassettes.

    In this light, we would like to draw attention to a particular error in one of the translations:

    “Questioner: We have heard that you – O Shaykh – have said that it (participating in parliamentary elections) is permissible, but with conditions.

    Al-Albaanee: No! It is not permissible!”

    As you can see, “it” has been interpreted by the translator himself whereas the reader has no proof as to what the Shaykh may have been referring to.

    From the aspect of Arabic grammar, a pronoun refers to something previously expressed or understood in a particular passage or conversation. So when referring to the source of the Shaykh’s statement, we realise the Shaykh was not referring to the general issue of “participating in parliamentary elections” as the translator incorrectly leads the reader to believe – since this encompasses a lot of things.

    We will leave it to the translator to revise his work, then “truly” and accurately, as his title indicates, inform the people as to exactly what Shaykh al-Albaanee was referring to when he said: “it”. However, one should also bear in mind that having some proficiency in the Arabic language itself does not qualify one to attempt to interpret the Fataawa one is translating unless one has studied the issue at hand from the Scholars themselves.

    We would also like to add that anybody who accurately reads the Fatwa of Shaykh al-Albaanee entitled “The Reality of al-Albaanee’s Position on Voting” that was published on Madeenah.Com would clearly see that it has nothing whatsoever to do with Algeria. His position is consistent on this specific topic and the readers can see this for themselves; The verdict that he gave to the Algerians is a separate Fatwa and therefore an analogy between the two issues can only be made by those who may not fully understand when or how to make an analogy, as occurs in the following and elsewhere:

    “People historically who have resorted to actions similar to these are the likes of Salman al-Awdah who used Shaykh al-Albaani’s permission for the Algerians to enter into elections as a means of justifying that act in front of the populace in general.”

    Additionally, whoever it is who is posting such statements should assume due responsibility and identify exactly who they are by signing their names at the bottom of their posts, as posting under an alias, website name, publishing company or Masjid is still considered to be “Majhool” (unknown) to a certain degree. We do not see Shaykh Rabee’ writing under “Rabee.Net” or “Masjid so and so”, or any other Scholars – as such names can encompass a number of individuals. How many fataawa have we come across from the Lajnah, whereby they officially publish them along with a list of those members of the Lajnah who issued the fataawa? Clearly the issue of Jahaalah (such as writing under ambiguous names, as described above) is not from the manhaj of the Salaf and in this spirit one will find the people of knowledge and truthfulness and their students.

    Thirdly, issues like these which involve millions of Muslims worldwide should not be restricted to the mistakes or arguments of a particular establishment, or what is taking place in a particular locality, country or continent. This issue affects all Muslims worldwide, so it should be addressed in its generality. Addressing the issue on the premise of what is happening in a particular locality does not give Muslims living elsewhere their due right in the issue, as occurs in this statement:

    “Muslim women can be seen on the streets of many cities in full Hijab and Muslim men in Islamic garb and full beards, all of this with no obstruction from the authorities. All of these rights are afforded them without need of entering elections or voting.”

    Supposing Muslims in certain communities or localities are receiving equal rights much the same as other religious groups (which is debatable as we are sure most would agree) then this may not be the case in other localities where Muslims may be denied certain rights like wearing the veil at work or school or discrimination of the beard at certain work environments etc.

    A Muslim minority which is not receiving equal rights can use this same argument to justify the permissibility of voting – stating that since they are not receiving their rights then they need to enter elections, which would also be incorrect. Attempting to reach the correct opinion in such a matter on the pretence of what is happening in a specific locality or time period only further illustrates the lack of knowledge regarding how to arrive at the correct opinion. By doing so, every locality would reach what suits their desires or what is befitting for their locality without taking the guidelines of the Islaamic legislation into account or the reality of the verdict as to whether it is permissible or not.

    Here is what Shaykh Muhammad ibn Haadee said about a similar case:

    “My brothers, it is obligatory upon us to be students of knowledge, that we do not get carried away by storms or emotions, rather we traverse upon well thought out principles and legislated evidences that were related by the Messenger of Allaah (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and his companions and the leading Scholars of guidance, the Imaams of Ahlus-Sunnah, may Allaah have mercy upon all of them.”

    Fourthly: It should also be stated that this issue is considered to be from the issues of Nawaazil (major affairs which have befallen/affected the Muslims and therefore require guidance from the recognised major Scholars).

    So, if the major Scholars differ regarding any such issues, we should suffice the Muslims with their speech and not try to convince them with our own limited opinions on the matter as none of us are qualified to do so in such a major affair – as some of our brothers have kindly illustrated.

    Importantly, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Haadee mentioned that what has harmed the Salafee Da’wah greatly is people inserting their own introductions, explanations, conclusions and footnotes to the speech of the Scholars while they are alive and thus can be contacted to further explain what they meant or intended.

    In issues of Nawaazil, even the lesser Scholars in knowledge should not be referred to. These affairs are for the recognised major Scholars, as is well established amongst the Salafees; that they turn to the major Scholars during Fitan (tribulations) and Nawaazil. Importantly, the great Muhaddith, Shaykh Hammaad al-Ansaaree was asked about an issue to which he replied:

    “…may I be whipped if I were to put myself forward to deal with such issues whilst we have the Grand Mufti in office!”

    And on numerous occasions, Shaykh Muhammad Amaan al-Jaamee, Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbaad (the Shaykh of all the Mashaayikh of Madeenah), Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee and others have recommended people to refer such issues to the Lajnah (The Permanent Committee for Islaamic Research and Verdicts).

    The issue of voting or running in democratic elections in itself is not from the Nawaazil. It is clear that it is impermissible, but the issue of weighing out the benefits and harms of voting for the lesser of two harms for the great masses of Muslim minorities in the West does encompass Nawaazil because a decision like this greatly affects the lives of millions of Muslims. It needs immense knowledge, deep insight, wisdom, understanding and experience and these qualities are found in the recognised major Scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah and not the common Muslims, students of knowlege or Du’aat.

    Shaykh Ibraaheem ar-Ruhaylee said about such issues of Nawaazil:

    “…it is the rulers [Scholars are included as well] who are the authority in this affair, they are the ones who are to be referred to when it comes to the issue of the interests/well being of the general public, whether it is the issue of boycotting or other than that from the major issues that befall the public. We notice that during a lot of these major affairs, the common folk take on the responsibility of directing the masses and propagating their opinions, whether they do so by sending messages through cell phones or through the internet or other mediums, they take on the responsibility, put themselves forward and direct the masses… Trying to come with a ruling in such major affairs is not something simple, rather the situation has to be properly analyzed, the consequences of the decision have to be taken into account as well as the repercussions. This is why you will not find any intelligent person who ponders over these issues except that he would realize that being hasty in such situations may lead to terrible repercussions upon the Muslims, rather it may even be from what Allaah has prohibited.”

    Fifthly, we have the issue of utilising the internet as a means of giving advice. If in fact this was the intent of those who posted their opinions on various Salafee sites then they must know that when you give Naseehah in this manner it is called Fadheehah (i.e. exposing/humiliating someone) and the article of al-Haafidh Ibn Rajab (rahima-hullaah) which was translated on this site some time ago vividly clarifies the difference between the two. The administration at Madeenah.Com has exerted itself in addressing this issue as well as many other issues in the past but we now ask the question:

    When will we start conducting ourselves like the Scholars whom we claim we follow?

    When our Shaykh, Muhammad ibn Haadee was advising Shaykh Faalih al-Harbee for eleven years as he mentions to us now, was he doing it publicly and in general gatherings or was this something done privately between the two of them?

    When our Shaykh, Rabee’ ibn Haadee was advising Abul-Hassan al Ma’rabee for seven years to retract his errors on various issues, did he do it publicly or privately between themselves?

    This is the methodology of the Ulamaa when it comes to giving advice, as the Prophet (sal-Allaahu ‘alayhe wa sallam) said:

    “Whoever desires to advise the leader then he should not do so publicly, rather he should take him by the hand and advise him privately. If he accepts then so be it and if he rejects it then he has carried out his responsibility.” (Saheeh Muslim).

    The Ulamaa explain that this is the basis when it comes to giving advice to any Muslim and it is not restricted to the Muslim leader.

    To conclude, it appears that most of the confusion appears to stem from not knowing how to conduct ourselves when our Scholars differ in issues of Ijtihaad. Especially in issues like this, issues that only arose in our era, issues that were not present at the time of the Salaf, issues where differing is more likely to occur between our Scholars since they would be the pioneers in delivering a verdict concerning them. An article by Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen has already been published concerning how Ahlus-Sunnah should conduct themselves in such cases where he stated:

    “There is no doubt that this type of behaviour damages this Ummah and it is imperative for the students of knowledge to understand that this is detrimental and disappointing to all of us.

    I will ask you: Did any revelation come to you from Allaah informing you that the position which you chose is correct?

    If no revelation came to him to inform him of this, then how is it that he can be so convinced that his position is the correct position?! He doesn’t know, perhaps his brother who opposed him and took a different position could be the one who is actually correct and he himself is the one who is astray!!”

    This article can be accessed here, and another by Shaykh Saalih al-Fowzaan on the topic will follow Inshaa.-Allaah.

    Additionally, we recommend the Muslims seek benefit from Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen’s important book, entitled: “The differing between the Scholars and our position regarding it” (الخلاف بين العلماء و موقفنا منه).

    Shaykul-Islaam Ibn Tayamiyyah said:

    “He is not the Faqeeh, one who forces his opinion upon the people.”

    Shaykh al-Albaanee said:

    “It is from politics to stay out of politics.”

    It would be wise to suffice ourselves with the speech of our noble Salafee Scholars and not get involved with our own opinions in affairs which are worthy of Scholarly attention.

    Finally, Madeenah.Com is always open for sincere advice and suggestions as too are the translators of the articles therein. That said, we pray that we can all benefit from such information and conduct ourselves in a befitting manner if such issues arise in the future, and not behave in a manner that would only increase hostility and splitting between the Salafees, issues in which the Salafee Scholars themselves have differed in but would never behave in such a manner amongst themselves, wAllaahul-Musta’aan. We implore Allaah (‘Azza wa Jall) to unite our hearts as Salafee’s and to forgive us our sins and transgressions and allow us to work together upon al-Birr and at-Taqwa for indeed He is capable of all things.

    wAllaahu A’lam, and all praise is due to Allaah (alone), the Lord of the worlds, and may the salaat and salutations be upon the final Messenger sent to the Jinn and Mankind; Muhammad, his family and all of his noble companions.

    Madeenah.Com Administration,
    – revised and approved by:

    Abu Abdul Waahid Nadir Ahmad
    Abu Az-Zubayr Shadeed Muhammad
    Abu Abdullaah Mohammed Akhtar Chaudhry
    Zulfiker Ibrahim al-Memoni al-Athari

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