BBC: “C4 ‘Distorted’ Mosque Programme”

I just got this from brother Abu Usamah Atthahabi, one of the featured speakers in the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on extremism being preached in some of the UK’s mosques. The programme was filled with distortions and quotes taken way out of context, and the praise is Allah’s, now the Western media has acknowledged that fact.

Police are reporting Channel 4 to industry regulator Ofcom over the way an undercover programme was edited.

But charges will not be brought against preachers featured in Dispatches, which tackled claims of Islamic extremism.

West Midlands Police carried out its own inquiry into three speakers in the Undercover Mosque broadcast, and then into the programme-makers themselves.

The Crown Prosecution Service said the show “completely distorted” what the trio said, a claim Channel 4 rejects.

Kevin Sutcliffe, commissioning editor for Dispatches, said West Midlands police had produced no evidence to support their claims.

Read on … C4 ‘Distorted’ Mosque Programme.

Update No.1:

Brother Tariq Nelson‘s posted a Channel 4 News clip on the story on his blog: UK Police: C4 ‘distorted’ mosque programme. BBC World News also aired their own story:

(Link to YouTube page)

(Link to YouTube page)

(Link to YouTube page)

Original Programme Aired by Channel 4:

Responses by Abu Usamah At-thahabi & Dr. Bilal Philips:

Update No.2:

Here are some more links to press information courtesy of Amad @ MuslimMatters.org:

From the Independant:

Channel 4 found itself engulfed in another row over an alleged fake programme last night after West Midlands Police complained to Ofcom about the editing of one of its documentaries.

Police had been asked to investigate the Dispatches film “Undercover Mosque”, made by Hardcash Productions, in January because of concerns that it contained scenes that may have stirred racial hatred.

Read on … Prosecutors Accuse Channel 4 of Distorting Footage of Preachers.

From the Times:

Police have made a formal complaint to Ofcom over a Channel 4 Dispatches film about Muslim extremists which was allegedly distorted through its editing.

It emerged today that a second Dispatches programme about British Muslims is also under investigation, this one by the Metropolitan police.

Read on … Channel 4 in Row Over Mosque Film.

And finally, Channel 4’s “lame” defence in the Guardian:

Channel 4 has defended its Dispatches programme Undercover Mosque and hit back at West Midlands police, who today accused the documentary of distortion.

In a robust statement, Channel 4 said the current affairs documentary, broadcast in January, had allowed Islamist extremists to speak for themselves and had sought to put all the footage used in context.

Read on … Channel 4 Defends Dispatches.

About Rasheed Gonzales
My name is Rasheed Gonzales. I’m a Muslim convert of Filipino descent. Born and raised in Toronto, Canada, I was guided to Islam through one of my younger brothers and a couple of friends, all of whom had converted to Islam sometime before me (may Allah reward them greatly). I am married with four children (and the praise is Allah’s) and also a volunteer for the Qur'an & Sunnah Society of Canada, based in Toronto.

56 Responses to BBC: “C4 ‘Distorted’ Mosque Programme”

  1. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    Although it is great news that justice was served it must be noted that the show has already done its intended damage and it has done so in view of millions, in contrast, the West Midlands findings have hardly made the news let alone the headlines.

  2. Very true, brother. Very true.

  3. as-salaamu ‘alaykum

    I agree with br. Aboo Uthmaan. It is similar to when CNN’s first remarks whenever a diaster happens is “we’re not sure if it is terrorism”, but the likelihood of it being connected to terrorism and thus muslims is already planted in the minds of many viewers, so they will begin to understand the issue in this context, especially if they do not follow up. I am still wondering if the collapsed bridge was linked to terrorism (obviously I do not believe, but this is the result of conditioning). They will never stop.

    I am more saddened, however, by Muslims who almost immediately denounce “the muslim suspects” when the facts of an event are not fully (or sometimes even partially) established. We should be first to call for facts before believing the media and helping them to accuse Muslims, especially when it is not hidden that there are those in authority who plot against the Muslims, whether it be for political gain or to destroy Islam.
    I am no conspiracy theorist but I long for the day those who were really responsible for 9/11 and 7/7 are dealth with justly.

    Zahra

  4. While I agree with much of what has been mentioned here, the sad reality is that part of the stigma that surrounds Islam and Muslims is the result of the actions and misdeeds of some of our misguided brothers and sisters; those who can truly be labelled as the Khawârij.

    What’s worse is that you find aspects of their ideology and methodology creeping into various other groups and parties among the Muslims, including some who claim Salafism, sadly enough.

  5. Abu Nauman says:

    Assalamualikum
    Thanks for posting the original clips. I am so glad that the truth has now come out. There are some great blogs about this so many UK muslim website.
    I especially liked the ones on ummahpulse.co.uk
    http://ummahpulse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=178&Itemid=37
    http://ummahpulse.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=176&Itemid=37
    Have a look at them, Inshallah.
    Wassalam

  6. Allaah says,
    “They plot and plan; and Allaah also plans – and Allaah is the Best of Planners.”
    {al-Anfaal (8): 30}

    This is a real slap in the face with a wet fish followed by with a filthy rag for the likes of TJ Winter (Abdal-Hakim Murad), MECO, Haras Rafiq and other conniving failures who really thought that the only way they could get their own partisan agendas across was to participate in such a documentary.

    Complain:

    http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/

    And:

    Andrew Smith
    Hardcash Productions
    35 Waterside
    44 – 48 Wharf Road
    London N1 7UX

  7. Jazâk Allah khairan brother AbdulHaq for the link and contact info.

  8. Karim says:

    Assalaam.

    Thanks for the post. Truth has to win finally!!

    How they incited hatred against muslims and Islam with those videos across continents.

    I really wish the channel is closed down as a message to liars.

  9. I read the article its true it has been taken out of context but what the video was shown was not something new to me when I used so to these type of mosque this is how the talk very harsh , another thing is that non muslims when doing these documentary they had intentions if incitment . Thes type of people exist in every relegion. so it was terribly unfair . btw it wont let me watch the videos .

  10. btw it wont let me watch the videos .

    Strange. I wonder why BBCWorldNews would make them private after having had them public for the first few days they ran them. Try looking through BBC World News videos on YouTube, you may be able to find them on there: http://www.youtube.com/user/bbcworldnews.

    What is harsh about the way they speak at these “type of mosque”?

  11. their is something wrong with the whole idea of intolerance .
    I was actualy going to post abu usamah’s reply , it was obvious from the documentary that alot of it was heavly edited , especialy what bilal philips said , and khalid yaseen . i just find the whole suadi thing realy disturbing , and confusing
    is this how we are supposed to be as muslims ? harsh ?

    and this whole thing about woman , ‘ a man is in charge of a woman she goes were he goes ‘
    what is that supposed to mean ? is that supposed to mean I have no freedom to say no , I want to stay and my feelings don’t matter ?
    this is a grand mufti saying this , what has he been learning ?

    I’m asking these questions to better my understanding what islam is , I don’t have doubt in the matter but i doubt what our leaders are teaching us , on one hand you get some muftis making everything halal , and on the other you get mufti that say stuff that makes you go huh?
    then theirs me who just thinks these people have more knowledge then you what do you know ? I don’t know who trust my instinct or their knowledge.

  12. their is something wrong with the whole idea of intolerance .

    Firstly, it would be a good idea to define what tolerance and intolerance actually are since everyone seems to love throwing these words around without really specifying what they mean by them. What is tolerance and what is intolerance?

    In Islam, Muslims are not allowed to force non-Muslims into accepting Islam. Allah says, «There is no compulsion in the religion. The right way has been made clear from the wrong, so whoever disbelieves in the false deities and believes in Allah has grasped to the trustworthy handhold for which there is no breaking» (2:256). Non-Muslims are allowed to live in Islamic states and keep their beliefs and religions provided they pay the tax (jizyah). At the same time, however, Allah says, «Surely, the religion with Allah is Islam, and those who were given the Book did not differ out of injustice between them except after the knowledge came to them, and whoever disbelieves in Allah’s verses, then surely Allah is swift in reckoning» (3:19). Allah also tells us that «whoever seeks other than Islam as a religion, it will not be accepted from him, and in the Hereafter, he will be from the losers» (3:85). So while we are not to force non-Muslims to accept our religion and we are to allow them to live in our lands provided they pay the tax, we also believe that all other religions besides Islam are false religions and paths to misguidance. We also believe that non-Muslims are disbelievers and if they die upon disbelief, they will dwell in Hell forever. Is that being intolerant?

    How about within the religion of Islam, among the Muslims themselves? Throughout Islamic history we see examples of scholars differing in opinion based on valid interpretations of Qur’anic verses and prophetic hadîths. Legitimate differences of opinion based on valid use of evidences is allowed in Islam. At the same time, however, Allah tells us that «whoever opposes the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him, and follows other than the believers’ path, We will turn him to what he turned to and We will roast him in Hell—[which is] wretched as a end!» (4:115). Prophet Muhammad also told us that «whoever does a deed which our affair (i.e., Islam) is not upon, then it is rejected» and that «the evilest of affairs are their innovated ones; every innovated [affair] is heretic; every heresy is misguidance; and every misguidance is the Fire.» So while we allow legitimate differences of opinion based on evidences from the legislative texts, we reject all innovatory and heretic beliefs and practices that have no basis in the religion. Is that being intolerant?

    Because if tolerance means validating and giving legitimacy to these false beliefs and practices, whether they be beliefs and practices outside of Islam or within it, then I’d rather be labelled as intolerant for calling to the truth and speaking out against falsehood.

    and this whole thing about woman , ‘ a man is in charge of a woman she goes were he goes ‘
    what is that supposed to mean ? is that supposed to mean I have no freedom to say no , I want to stay and my feelings don’t matter ?
    this is a grand mufti saying this , what has he been learning ?

    I was mistaken in saying that Shaikh ‘Abdul-‘Azîz Âl ash-Shaikh was the only Saudi shaikh shown in the documentary. There was at least one or two others. The shaikh who said those words was not the Grand Muftî; I’m not sure who it was.

    As for the man being in charge of the woman (i.e., the husband and his wife), Allah says, «And the men are the custodians of the women because Allah has favoured some of them over others» (4:34), so what that shaikh said in the short clip does have basis in the religion. The husband is considered the head of the family, the final decision maker and the one responsible over the others in his family; he should be obeyed in things that don’t entail disobedience to Allah. That does not mean, however, that the wife cannot disagree with what he says or voice her opinion or give any input concerning family matters whatsoever.

  13. Firstly, it would be a good idea to define what tolerance and intolerance actually are since everyone seems to love throwing these words around without really specifying what they mean by them. What is tolerance and what is intolerance?

    I do not disagree to what you said after , my term of ontolerance is by not making fun of other peoples religions , and showing respect , if you want to convey the truth you don’t convey the message by being rude and arrogrant , you convey it with intelligence . non muslims make fun of us all the time , they always say nasty things about us , when I see muslims doing what they do to us , it sickens me , we are supposed to be better , we have the truth , we don’t need to be as low as them . Theis is no benefit to ones charactor by making fun of homosexuals, hindus , jews , christians ect …theirs no benefit in it , we know its wrong , are job to convey it with respect to their feelings , they accept or they don’t at the end of the day allah guides . I hope I made that clear .

    ‘ At the same time, however, Allah tells us that «whoever opposes the Messenger after the guidance has been made clear to him, and follows other than the believers’ path, We will turn him to what he turned to and We will roast him in Hell—[which is] wretched as a end!» (4:115). Prophet Muhammad also told us that «whoever does a deed which our affair (i.e., Islam) is not upon, then it is rejected» and that «the evilest of affairs are their innovated ones; every innovated [affair] is heretic; every heresy is misguidance; and every misguidance is the Fire.» So while we allow legitimate differences of opinion based on evidences from the legislative texts, we reject all innovatory and heretic beliefs and practices that have no basis in the religion. Is that being intolerant?’

    regarding that , I was born in a deviated sect , alhamdullah I searched becuase I wanted to know , now trust me I would have not become a sunni if I had come across , some of these salafis that just shout out kaffir , and all sort of other harsh words , even if they are kafir , tell me what positive effect could it possibly have by shouting out kafir ? I used to get so hurt by such a name , because I was sincere , I geuinly loved being a muslim , and heres this muslim frowning at me and looking down at me . Now tell me were did the phrophet treat people like that ? In his whole entire life of dawah was he ever like that ?
    you want to help people to truth do it with gentlessness and humility , if they don’t want to know if they swear at you , YOU WALK AWAY. The point is ? well we are better then them DON’T GIVE THEM A CHANCE TO SAY something bad about you .
    salafi’s sadly just don’t have the wisdom this what i have noticed from their speech , shouting and calling names which has only lead to a negative reaction its time we changed .

    ‘As for the man being in charge of the woman (i.e., the husband and his wife), Allah says, «And the men are the custodians of the women because Allah has favoured some of them over others» (4:34), so what that shaikh said in the short clip does have basis in the religion. The husband is considered the head of the family, the final decision maker and the one responsible over the others in his family; he should be obeyed in things that don’t entail disobedience to Allah. That does not mean, however, that the wife cannot disagree with what he says or voice her opinion or give any input concerning family matters whatsoever’

    see this what I mean , you take one ayat then you use it as a complete literal way , no marriage works like that ! if the marriage always by the man constantly having male dominant power , woman would get suffocated and probably end up in an insanity hospital . It’s the job of an imam to explain these ayat’s properly , their only advice to a woman is ‘you don’t have choice obey him , or divorced him ‘ I have heard a salafi say that student of knowledge , weres the sense in that !?
    I mean they always speak like this , their so good at living islam by a set of rules , life does not work like , but just take a look at the way the phrophet was with his wives , he was never an authotarian .
    A friend of mind , told me that if these two hadeeths were implementd then marriages would be perfect .

    ‘If I was to ask anyone to prostrate to anyone other then Allah , then I would ask a woman to prostrate to her husband ‘
    ‘ The best of you , are those who are best to your woman ‘

    why ? simple , you are the leader , but that does mean you some tyrant , which btw I see this time and time again . the most commen thing I have heard well Im the husband and my word goes . I blame this type of atitude on the imams .
    anyways enough said , hope not to have caused offence .
    btw he is a maintainer , he is responsible for his wife , not a controller , could you imagine if a man just continuely controlled his wife what that would would causE? That would lead to rebbelism , islam is a moderate religion thats all I have to say .

    Edit (Rasheed): Formatting, to make it easier to read.

  14. Sumera says:

    Despite the clever editing, the actual content of some the speeches isn’t anything new and is quite a common “style” (you know, calling non-Muslims “pigs” and Jews “monkeys”, saying a woman is thick regardless of her attaining education and appearing intelligent because its her nature to be thick as a plank etc) of preaching adopted by some of the Imams around the mosques in the UK.

  15. Sumera says:

    And confusedaboutlife, there was a long discussion on the issue of obedience over my blog. You might want to check it out!

  16. sumera thanks for that will check that out ! , this is what I was trying to say to rasheed despite the fact it was heavily edited this is how they generaly talk in the salafi mosques

  17. I have seen this type of behaviour time and time again, so the video wasn’t complete utter lie , thank god that the police cleared it up , becuase their intention was to give muslims a bad name .

  18. Does Saudi Arabia Preach Intolerance in the UK and US?

    http://www.salafimanhaj.com/pdf/SalafiManhaj_Saudi.pdf

  19. May Allah reward you with good, brother AbdulHaq for that link. Allah willing, those who have contention with Saudi Arabia and the type of Islam generally believed to be propagated from it will read this beneficial article from you and the brothers at SalafiManhaj.com. May Allah allow you to continue the good work you and the brothers produce.

    As for the sisters’ comments, I’ll edit this comment of mine to add my replies, hopefully sooner than later. I’ve just arrived home from work and still have yet to read all of what has been posted. I’m going to be visiting my parents in the next little while so I might not be able to post a prompt reply. My apologies.

    Edit:

    my term of ontolerance is by not making fun of other peoples religions , and showing respect , if you want to convey the truth you don’t convey the message by being rude and arrogrant , you convey it with intelligence . non muslims make fun of us all the time , they always say nasty things about us , when I see muslims doing what they do to us , it sickens me , we are supposed to be better , we have the truth , we don’t need to be as low as them . Theis is no benefit to ones charactor by making fun of homosexuals, hindus , jews , christians ect …theirs no benefit in it , we know its wrong , are job to convey it with respect to their feelings , they accept or they don’t at the end of the day allah guides . I hope I made that clear .

    Allah prohibits us from mocking other religions’ gods. This is clearly mentioned in the Qur’an. He also commands that when we invite others to Islam, that we are to argue with them with what is best.

    Where in the whole “documentary” do you find “Salafîs” going against this? Abu Usamah At-thahabi made a joke about how we can discriminate against homosexuals without getting in trouble. That isn’t exactly making fun of homosexuals, nor is it making fun of anyone’s (false) religion or (false) god(s). So what exactly were you sickened by?

    I was born in a deviated sect , alhamdullah I searched becuase I wanted to know ,

    Mâshâ’allah. The praise is Allah’s for your guidance to Sunnî Islam. For what it’s worth, I was born into another religion entirely. I renounced it because I believed it was wrong, and I eventually came to find the truth in Islam; Salafî Islam.

    now trust me I would have not become a sunni if I had come across , some of these salafis that just shout out kaffir , and all sort of other harsh words , even if they are kafir , tell me what positive effect could it possibly have by shouting out kafir ? … salafi’s sadly just don’t have the wisdom this what i have noticed from their speech , shouting and calling names which has only lead to a negative reaction its time we changed .

    There are good Salafîs and bad Salafîs; knowledgeable Salafîs and ignorant Salafîs; you also have smart and intelligent Salafîs and stupid, retarded Salafîs. Personally, I don’t know of any Salafî who goes and “just shout out kaffir , and all sort of other harsh words”. Perhaps you’ve encountered some ignorant Salafîs, if they even were Salafîs.

    see this what I mean , you take one ayat then you use it as a complete literal way

    I suggest you refer back to the classical books of Qur’anic exegesis such as Tafsîr Ibn Kathîr, Tafsîr at-Tabarî, and Tafsîr al-Qurtubî, see what they say about this verse and then come back and tell me the other possible meanings of «ar-rijâl qawwâmūn ‘alan-nisâ’».

    I said that “[t]he husband is considered the head of the family, the final decision maker and the one responsible over the others in his family; he should be obeyed in things that don’t entail disobedience to Allah.” I did not say that he was his wife’s owner, master, or slave driver. I honestly can’t fathom how the heck some of you sisters automatically come to those ridiculous conclusions of tyrany and oppression simply by reading those words. The husband is in charge. This is what Allah clearly states in the Qur’an.

    the actual content of some the speeches isn’t anything new and is quite a common “style” (you know, calling non-Muslims “pigs” and Jews “monkeys”, saying a woman is thick regardless of her attaining education and appearing intelligent because its her nature to be thick as a plank etc) of preaching adopted by some of the Imams around the mosques in the UK.

    Personally, I don’t know of any Salafî whose “common ‘style'” is to say these things, especially the bit about women being thick as planks. This last bit wasn’t even in the C4 documentary.

  20. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    I haven’t actually seen the Dispatches ‘Undercover Mosque’ assembly of cut and paste in order to fit their filthy agenda in full since I am not in the UK, however, I did catch some of it online and from what I understood from what Abu Usaamah at-Thahabi said is that:

    If one were to call homosexuals filthy animals then that’s ones freedom of speech, isn’t it? However, we know that if one were to say such things openly he would be condemned by the media and he may even be arrested for bigotry or whatever concoction of offences they can come up with. So where is the freedom of speech? Yet, they are free to draw such cartoons of our Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and mock him and slander him, since that’s their freedom of speech.

    So the point that he was making is that when it comes to freedom of speech it is one rule for them and one rule for us. Islam however is not freedom of speech for all and sundry; rather, it channels that freedom such that one person’s freedom doesn’t infringe upon another, and this is from the beauty of our religion.

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  21. Rasheed – perhaps thats how the salafis are like in the uk , and I am not exagerating , more then one occasion I have heard them call other devient sects kafir and they don’t talk with mercy . They also devide the ummah .
    offcourse not all salafi speakers are like that I take the good and leave the bad , but before when I was in another sect I could not stand salafis because of their mannersims, they have made islam into some fiqh institute and when it’s not , although they know its not like that but, their seems to be a repetition in their charactor . perhaps it’s just the way the uk salafi’s are like , allahu alim .
    another thing I have noticed salafi’s to be the harshest to their wives . BECAUSE ITS THEIR RIGHT AND GET AWAY WITH IT . no offence brother , but theirs more to it then meets the eye .
    btw salafism is like a new manhaj in islam , go and reasearch on it , they think they are right path , bash other madhab followers , well I would prefer to take from imam malik may be allah be pleased with him, any day then bin baz !
    this needs a whole post in it self Im reasearching in salafism , wahhabism , and school of thoughts why do we hae them ? thats teh question that needs to be answered , what about tassawaf ? anyways I dont expect you to answer , but be careful don’t be blindid by salfis telling you they have the truth

  22. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Confused, what part of the UK do you live in?

  23. another thing I have noticed salafi’s to be the harshest to their wives . BECAUSE ITS THEIR RIGHT AND GET AWAY WITH IT . no offence brother , but theirs more to it then meets the eye .

    Sister, as I mentioned above, “[t]here are good Salafîs and bad Salafîs; knowledgeable Salafîs and ignorant Salafîs; you also have smart and intelligent Salafîs and stupid, retarded Salafîs.” To generalize and make the sweeping statements you do about a group of individuals–Muslims, at that–is unfair and unjust.

    The vast majority of married Salafî men I know personally are brothers who (at least from what is apparent) treat their wives fairly and are very kind and caring to them. They know their rights and they know their responsibilities. They also are conscious of transgressing the limits and the rights afforded to them by Allah, for the most part, because they know that they can’t get away with everything and anything; they know that they will be held accountable for their actions on Judgement day, where Allah will be the one to hold them to account.

    btw salafism is like a new manhaj in islam , go and reasearch on it , they think they are right path , bash other madhab followers , well I would prefer to take from imam malik may be allah be pleased with him, any day then bin baz !

    The praise is Allah’s for guiding me to Salafism, sister. I’ve reseached it and know that the methodology and creed adhered to by Salafîs can be traced back to Prophet Muhammad and his companions, just as I’ve mentioned in the article I wrote and posted to this blog of mine: The Salaf, the Salafîs & Salafism. Perhaps you should read it. I also have one I wrote on Imam Muhammad bin ‘Abdil-Wahhâb which you can read here, if you like.

  24. Sumera says:

    Personally, I don’t know of any Salafî whose “common ’style’” is to say these things, especially the bit about women being thick as planks. This last bit wasn’t even in the C4 documentary

    You should pay the UK a visit sometime!

  25. You should pay the UK a visit sometime!

    I’ve been there twice now. My wife’s from Stratford, East London. I’ve been to Masjid Tawhid in Leyton a couple of times (once for Jumu’ah), Masjid al-Huda in Mile End (for lectures by Abu Usamah At-Thahabi and others), some masjid in Bradford, Masjid as-Salafiyyah in Keighley, Masjid al-Ghurabaa in Luton, and Masjid Ibn Taimiyyah in Brixton. Not once have I heard this “common ‘style'” you speak of in any of them.

  26. Sumera says:

    You seem to think we’re making this up, when infact it does happen and some Imams (or speakers) thrive on spouting such rhetoric. The only people it has any impact on are the youth, which in itself is quite a dangerous effect to have.

  27. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    I wonder if any of the commentators here have actually read the articles that Br. ‘Abdul-Haqq and Br. Rasheed have posted links to?! If you have then what are your thoughts on them? If not, then why not?

    Sister Sumera, you wouldn’t be talking about personalities such as Omar Bakri, Abu Hamza and ilk would you? Or perhaps about groups like al-Muhajiroun, now disbanded and split into several other groups including al-Ghurabaa and the Saviour Sect?

    It is from justice that one looks at the teachings of the manhaj and not the “so-called” claimants, because as the saying goes, everyone claims to love Layla, but Layla doesn’t love any of them. So the methodology is one thing, and those who attach themselves to it are another.

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  28. You seem to think we’re making this up, when infact it does happen and some Imams (or speakers) thrive on spouting such rhetoric. The only people it has any impact on are the youth, which in itself is quite a dangerous effect to have.

    No, not at all. I’m just saying you are saying this is the “common” trait among Salafîs, whereas my experience tells me otherwise. You and and the other sister have made broad, sweeping, general statements regarding a group of Muslims that is just as diverse as any other group of Muslims. Not all Salafîs behave as you describe, nor are your descriptions “common” among most Salafîs, especially the more learned ones.

    There is also the fact that other groups and parties, such as some of those named by brother Aboo Uthmaan mentioned, often get indentified as Salafîs when they couldn’t be further from the creed and methodology preached by actual Salafî callers.

    You claim that Salafî men treat their wives like dogs on a leash. Yet, I don’t do that, nor do the vast majority of married Salafî men that I know. You claim that Salafîs go around labelling others as disbelievers and non-Muslims, whereas the vast majority of Salafîs I know are very weary and cautious about excommunicating any Muslim without precedent from a bonified scholar of Islam who has the right to make such judgements.

  29. Sumera says:

    If you refer back to my original comment which was this to refresh your memory:

    Despite the clever editing, the actual content of some the speeches isn’t anything new and is quite a common “style” (you know, calling non-Muslims “pigs” and Jews “monkeys”, saying a woman is thick regardless of her attaining education and appearing intelligent because its her nature to be thick as a plank etc) of preaching adopted by some of the Imams around the mosques in the UK.

    I didnt mention it being a common trait amongst Salafi mosques or Salafi Imams. Infact I didnt mention Salafi’s at all!

    The point made by me was that some of the opinions aired by the Imams (and their congregation)from the documentary haven’t been plucked from mid air. Some of the things they spouted are commonly found and almost proudly boasted as being the “correct” opinion amongst some groups of Muslims.

    Some Muslims who think little or nothing of women, who think they are indeed akin to dogs on a leash, who are too naive to be able to think for themselves and need to be controlled at every given opportunity, who are intellectually deficient because she was “made” like that and who’s only purpose is to breed and be available for intercourse. Some who also believe non-Muslims to be inherently evil, and since they eat pork they are also pigs and of course they are also monkeys etc all these similar kind of pathetic comments.

    Some of these “beliefs” are usually dormant, in that they may not be voiced to all or to anyone. But when they catch wind of the Imams in our mosques preaching that which they “already knew anyway” it simply reinforces these attitudes. So the Imams dont help by encouraging such attitudes and that is where the problem lies.

  30. My use of “you” was general, not intended to mean you, sister Sumera, in specific. Sorry for not making that clear in my response. Your comments, although you didn’t mention Salafîs in them, seemed to be very much in line with the other sister’s (“confusedaboutlife”–sorry, I don’t know your name) who did mention them specifically, hence my general use of “you” in addressing the two of you in my response. My apologies for that assumption as well.

  31. abu othman – I live in london , and im actualy not far from masjid al ghuraba infact I will be going to a conference this week their

    sumera – I completly agree with you on that , it is a major problem we have , imams need to teach the youth to be good muslims, and stop this ridicolous behaviour of bashing other people who are not like us , that is totaly not the phrophets way.swa

    rasheed- regarding manhaj al salafi , their like the only knowledge available to muslims here , and trust me theirs more to islam then just what salafis say , I know of people who have actualy left it and is considering the idea of following a school of thought . The salafi school of thought , is very rigid and they seem to think that ONLY their opinion is the strongest . Theirs more to islam then what salafis say and I feel very disatisfied and iritated to say the least as to why ONLY their literature is available in the uk . ( which is why everyone should go and learn arabic!)
    btw salafis say that a woman can’t make up fatwa’s due to the hadeeth about womans minds being deficient , a completly NEW idea in the 21 first century . Their were many woman in the past who were ullama , now in the 21 first century I am hearing this nonsense . Woman even tuaght men in the past , But now such a rare thing .
    regarding the treatment of woman , well mashallah and may allah keep you all like that ameen . I don’t think salafi people are bad and sorry for the generalizaition , it is just the type of salafis I am surroundid by ….
    A conclusion ? well their is defintly more knowledge out their in classical islam then their is in this new manhaj that claims to be the saved group , i suggest YOU should look into it more and Im sure you would be surprised .

  32. regarding manhaj al salafi , their like the only knowledge available to muslims here , and trust me theirs more to islam then just what salafis say ,

    That’s quite funny considering that the fact that many of the deviant sects that exist are stronger in the UK than they are here in Canada. Hizb at-Tahrîr, for example have a bigger following there than they do over here. I’d never seen a Barelwi until I stepped foot in Keighley to visit Abu Usamah at his home when he was imam at Masjid Salafiyyah before moving to Birmingham.

    I know of people who have actualy left it and is considering the idea of following a school of thought .

    That, in and of itself, is not proof of its validity or invalidity.

    The salafi school of thought , is very rigid and they seem to think that ONLY their opinion is the strongest .

    Funny. The Salafî school of thought I know of is rigid where it should be, and accommodating where it should be. There is an allowance for difference of opinion, so long as the opinions are based on sound evidences and have been expressed by other imams and scholars of the past.

    Theirs more to islam then what salafis say and I feel very disatisfied and iritated to say the least as to why ONLY their literature is available in the uk . ( which is why everyone should go and learn arabic!)

    I find this claim very strange. I wonder just who exactly you think the Salafîs are and who you include among their ranks.

    btw salafis say that a woman can’t make up fatwa’s due to the hadeeth about womans minds being deficient

    This is not true at all. The fact that Shaikh Muqbil bin Hâdî al-Wâdi’î’s daughter, Umm ‘Abdillah, is writing books and teaching other sisters in Dammâj is proof enough to disspell this outright lie. There are other examples of current day female Salafî shaikhs further prove it wrong as well.

    A conclusion ? well their is defintly more knowledge out their in classical islam then their is in this new manhaj that claims to be the saved group , i suggest YOU should look into it more and Im sure you would be surprised .

    The praise is Allah’s, the more I look at what other groups and ideologies call to and consist of, the more I’m convinced that Salafism is the true way of Prophet Muhammad and his companions. Btw, have you read the articles I wrote and linked to above?

  33. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Dear Confused

    I actually meant the group called al-Ghurabaa and not Masjid al-Ghurabaa; the two have no connection with one another whatsoever. The group called al-Ghurabaa are extremist in many of their views, whereas Masjid al-Ghurabaa, the Masjid that you are going to the conference of this weekend is balanced inshaa’Allaah, treading a middle path.

    I pray and ask Allaah to make the conference that you will attend at Call to Islam, Masjid al-Ghurabaa, Luton this weekend to be of benefit to you and all that attend – ameen! Please remember though, the methodology is one thing and its infallible, however, the people and their application of it are not. So judge the manhaj according to its teachings and not the way some “so-called” adherents act or behave.

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  34. ‘That’s quite funny considering that the fact that many of the deviant sects that exist are stronger in the UK than they are here in Canada. Hizb at-Tahrîr, for example have a bigger following there than they do ‘

    This is the exact type of atitude I am talking about ‘devient’ , hizb tehrir ARE NOT DEVIENT , they are just a political group , they mainly follow the hanefi school of thought , they know more about islam then salafi’s do any day .
    WHEN I SAY THEIR IS MORE KNOWLEDGE OUT THEIR THEN WHAT SALAFI’S GIVE , I AM REFFERING TO CLASSICAL ISLAM . which is maliki, hannafi, shaafi and hannabali . OH I SUPPOSE THEIR DEVIENT ?! because they don’t follow ‘manhaj’ al salafi ?
    shaafi himself was a tab tabien , were is bin baz is in the 21 first century ?! now tell me pls who has more knowledge ?! in all straight honesty ?! , this is what I am talking about .

    ‘I know of people who have actualy left it and is considering the idea of following a school of thought ‘.

    fair enough it is not enough proof to suggest salafism is weak , but the reason for people leaving it is because they are seeking knowledge , for example , sheikh albani , I have been reasearching on him , infact I have a book on him sitting on my shelf ,’albani unveiled ‘ although I often don’t realy read books with such titles due to the fact it is most probably biase. I started reading it the other day to know why , I suddenly realized albani has not had a teacher , so who apointed him as scholar ?
    another thing salafi’s are against people who follow madhabs , but what on earth are they doing ? they only take knowledge from bin baz, uthayman ,albani , nawawi ( when he himself used to do tassawuf , check it out if you do not believe me :)), and their is another scholar I can’t remember …….another thing that baffles my mind , why do you call yourself a salafi ?! number 1- your not a salaf , number 2- all four madhabs take knowledge from first 3 generaitions (salaf), what are you trying to say ?

    ‘This is not true at all. The fact that Shaikh Muqbil bin Hâdî al-Wâdi’î’s daughter, Umm ‘Abdillah, is writing books and teaching other sisters in Dammâj is proof enough to disspell this outright lie. There are other examples of current day female Salafî shaikhs further prove it wrong as well’.

    I did not say she can’t be a sheikh , but she cannot have the title , and nor can she make fatwa’s , check it out , Im not making this up because a sister came from yemen , finishing her study’s (islamic) has the same knowledge as the males , but can’t have the title because she is a woman . also , i don’t know wether it has changed in madinah , but their is not even one univeristy for a woman , to take up studys to become a scholar . scholar – not a sheikh . btw even my husband said this to me ‘ a woman can’t give fatwa’s’ ..I mean the more I hear this stuff from salafis their more I feel sick and think thats ENOUGH , and only salafis say this stuff , my husband got this from some scholar . Now tell me how am I going to justify such a thing to a non muslim ? womans right! rubbish !…oh and offcourse woman can’t be a judge ..for so long I thought that , then recently discovered she can but only in certain jurisdictions.
    one other thing recently my friend told me that in saudi now they say a woman should not study islamic economics ,because we have enough male’s in the field . OK so we don’t need non arabic speaking people to learn arabic because we have enough arabs to do this for us . what absurdity !? when you start using ‘logic’ thats when it starts to get dangerous .
    about your articls ? what arcticls ? I remember a website I was checking out and reading on salafism and wahhabism . I am still reasearching the matter on salafism ..but this albani thing is making me uneasy , I mean how can you make your own self a scholar ?traditionly a teacher tells you wether you are ready or not .
    conclusion – I HAVE HAD ENOUGH , of muslims , islam a wonderful and beutiful religion , but sadly we have ignorant leaders leading us . We need more woman to learn their rights and clear up this nonsense that they bring and call islam . It is not only haram to say the least , but the repurcussions of these extreme ideas , are far worse , your going to have the next generaition leaving islam . then what are you going to say to allah ?

  35. aboo othman –

    ‘Please remember though, the methodology is one thing and its infallible’

    this again is what I am talking about , why on earth do you seem to think your some saved sect !? I know you did not say that , but infallible ?!

    pls brother in all sense , imam shaafi – tab tabien – imam malik – did what the people of madinah did at the time – imam hanafee is well renouned for his knowledge and wisdom – even after 10 years of studying islam – he still did not teach it – salafism ? hmm the 19 century ?! created through abdul wahab destroying shrines ( which is not a complete bad thing ) but he did do a hell lot of other things which ahem is an essay . I suggest you research your ‘infallible’ manhaj

    now you get some random person learning islam after a year then giving halaqa’s down the masjid and saying random hadeeths – without thinking about the consequences of misinterpreting a hadeeth – their is a whole science behind it subanallah – ya allah give me the knowledge – I can’t wait to learn the science so that I can strengthen my faith inshallah .

    all I am saying is that now way days you have to keep an open mind , check everything – be certain – study everything – so that on the day of judgment you cansay to allah yes I did my best in seeking knowledge . Dont be narrow mindid . ( btw im not refering to brewlys , their tawheed is messed up )

  36. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Dear sister Confused

    I don’t think that I am the saved sect, I never said I am, as for my final destination, only Allaah knows where that will be, I am not guaranteed Jannah, may He (subhaanahu wa ta’aala) save me from the Fire, ameen! I am but a mere man and I am not infallible, I make mistakes, I fall into error and I commit sins, may Allaah pardon me, ameen! The same is true for me as it is for all the Muslims, if I make it to Jannah then it will only be through the Mercy of Allaah.

    I am an individual, I am not a manhaj, a manhaj is bigger than me, I am just a small dot in a big wide ocean. As for the Saved Sect, then the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) described its characteristics to us in many ahaadeeth. I complied something pertaining to this subject around two years ago, so I will post it here on this thread in my next post inshaa’Allaah!

  37. This is the exact type of atitude I am talking about ‘devient’ , hizb tehrir ARE NOT DEVIENT , they are just a political group , they mainly follow the hanefi school of thought , they know more about islam then salafi’s do any day .

    Firstly, Hizb at-Tahrîr being a political group does not negate the fact that they have deviated in many areas, especially in areas of methodology.

    As for the claim that they know more about Islam than Salafîs do any day, I highly doubt that. None of the things I’ve seen them produce has shown me any shred of real knowledge. Most of what they display in terms of knowledge is politically focused, misguided ranting. Hizb at-Tahrîr had a very eloborate and flashy booth at the Reviving the Islamic Spirit concert conference a couple years ago (where QSS Canada also had a both to promote our mosque and sell some books to raise funds). One of my good friends, who isn’t all that knowledgeable, was able to dumbfound one of their representatives and recruiters with his rather simple questions. One of them even tried to start an argument with Dr. Bilal Philips who had stopped by the QSS booth for a small visit. Needless to say, Dr. Bilal made him look the fool as well.

    I also find it amusing how you complain about people running around excommunicating other Muslims when Hizb at-Tahrîr are quite known for this, especially with regards to Muslim rulers who they deem to be ruling by other than what Allah revealed.

    WHEN I SAY THEIR IS MORE KNOWLEDGE OUT THEIR THEN WHAT SALAFI’S GIVE , I AM REFFERING TO CLASSICAL ISLAM . which is maliki, hannafi, shaafi and hannabali . OH I SUPPOSE THEIR DEVIENT ?! because they don’t follow ‘manhaj’ al salafi ?

    Now why would we call those great Salafî imams? I wonder if you’ve ever read any “Salafî” books on Islamic jurisprudence and comprehension (fiqh), because most of the ones I’ve read are replete with references to the statements and opinions of those imams and their schools of thought.

    … the reason for people leaving it is because they are seeking knowledge , for example , sheikh albani , I have been reasearching on him , infact I have a book on him sitting on my shelf ,’albani unveiled ‘ although I often don’t realy read books with such titles due to the fact it is most probably biase. I started reading it the other day to know why , I suddenly realized albani has not had a teacher , so who apointed him as scholar ?

    Wow. So many lies and false accusations in this one little segment of your post.

    I know many brothers who have come to Salafism because of the fact that seeking knowledge is stressed so much. I know many Salafî brothers who have left the West and travelled to the East in order to seek knowledge, whether it be knowledge of the Arabic language, or to study under certain scholars in the Muslim lands or to study at one of the Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia or other countries. If people leave Salafism for some other methodology or belief, it’s because they weren’t grounded to begin with, they got tired of the tribulations and turoil that has been going on in recent years, or they didn’t like the attitudes and behavior of some of the harder headed, ill-mannered Salafîs.

    As for the book, al-Albânî unveiled by Hasan as-Saqqâf, it’s full of lies and distortions and has been exposed for the sham that it is. The accusation that Shaikh al-Albânî didn’t have a scholar who gave him that recognition is complete hogwash; and this has cleared up a long time ago and is available on numerous sites.

    another thing salafi’s are against people who follow madhabs , but what on earth are they doing ? they only take knowledge from bin baz, uthayman ,albani , nawawi ( when he himself used to do tassawuf , check it out if you do not believe me :)), and their is another scholar I can’t remember …….

    Another lie. many Salafî scholars follow the four (remaining) schools of thought. Shaikhs Ibn Bâz and Ibn ‘Uthaimîn were adherents to the Hanbalî school of thought, Shaikh Muhammad Amîn ash-Shanqîtî of Mauritania was an adherent to the Mâlikî school of thought, and there are other numerous examples.

    another thing that baffles my mind , why do you call yourself a salafi ?! number 1- your not a salaf , number 2- all four madhabs take knowledge from first 3 generaitions (salaf), what are you trying to say ?

    Your first question tells me that you are ignorant about the ascription to the salaf. I don’t call myself a salaf, I call myself a Salafî because I ascribe myself to their way and understanding. This has been explained elsewhere (including the article I wrote and linked to above. Btw, have you read it yet?).

    As for your second question, I’m not trying to say anything other than that I ascribe to the way of the early generations; nothing more, nothing less. The early generations include the imams of the four (remaining) schools of thought, I take the truth from wherever it is found, without excluding or giving precedence to one school over the other.

    I did not say she can’t be a sheikh , but she cannot have the title , and nor can she make fatwa’s , check it out , Im not making this up because a sister came from yemen , finishing her study’s (islamic) has the same knowledge as the males , but can’t have the title because she is a woman .

    That may be the case with some Islamic institutions, but I know of others who are already calling the shaikh’s daughter by the title of shaikhah. She’s also giving religious verdicts and answering many sisters’ questions–that’s what you call giving fatâwâ.

    also , i don’t know wether it has changed in madinah , but their is not even one univeristy for a woman , to take up studys to become a scholar . scholar – not a sheikh .

    Firstly, the Islamic University of Madînah is an all-male school, that’s why there isn’t a single woman attending it. Umm al-Qurâ’ University on the other hand is co-ed, both men and women can attend there and obtain both Islamic and secular educations.

    Secondly, the title shaikh is reserved for specific people. It is either used to refer to someone who is elder in age, such as tribe leaders and elders in one’s family or community; or it is used to refer to those who are elders in terms of their knowledge i.e., scholars. So the term shaikh and scholar (‘âlim) are synonymous.

    I mean the more I hear this stuff from salafis their more I feel sick and think thats ENOUGH , and only salafis say this stuff , my husband got this from some scholar . Now tell me how am I going to justify such a thing to a non muslim ? womans right! rubbish !…oh and offcourse woman can’t be a judge ..for so long I thought that , then recently discovered she can but only in certain jurisdictions.

    I don’t know what types of Salafîs you know or are hearing from, but none of the Salafîs I know are anything close to how you describe Salafîs as being.

    about your articls ? what arcticls ? I remember a website I was checking out and reading on salafism and wahhabism .

    These articles:
    The Salaf, the Salafîs & Salafism

    Muhammad bin ‘Abdil-Wahhâb & Wahhâbism

    Here’s the article brother AbdulHaq linked to: Does Saudi Arabia Preach Intolerance in the UK and US?

  38. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    The word Salaf literally means predecessor but in terms of its Sharee’ah meaning it is in reference to our pious predecessors, and this word is not a new word for indeed this word can be found in the Qur’aan, and Allaah says:

    “So when they angered Us, We punished them, and drowned them all, and made them a precedent – Salafan (as a lesson for those coming after them) and an example to later generations.” (Az-Zukhruf 43:55-56)

    The word Salaf-us-Saalih is a word that is used in reference to the first 3 generations of Muslims who were the best of generations, and the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said:

    “The best of the people are my generation, then those after them, then those after them.” (Al-Bukhaaree, at-Tirmidhee Aboo Daawood and an-Nasaa’ee)

    The Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said that Islam will break up into 73 sects and all will be in the hellfire except one, so his companions (radee Allaahu ‘anhum) asked who is that one saved sect, so the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) replied:

    “That which I AND my companions are upon.” (At-Tirmidhee and al-Haakim)

    Imaam Aboo Haneefah (d.159H) said:

    “Stick to the ‘athar’ (narrations) and the way of the ‘Salaf’ and beware of newly invented matters, for all of it is innovation…”

    Imaam Ahmed bin Hanbal (d.241H) said:

    “The Fundamental Principles of the Sunnah (meaning the correct aqeedah and manhaj) with us are Holding fast to what the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah were upon, Taking them [and their way] as a model to be followed…”

    Imaam al-Awzaa’ee (d.157H) said:

    “Hold fast to the narrations of the ‘Salaf’, even if people were to abandon you. Beware of the opinions of the people, no matter how much they beautify it with their speech…”

    The Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) said to his daughter Fatima (radee Allaahu ‘anha):

    “Indeed I am a blessed Salaf (ni’mas Salaf) to you.” (Muslim)

    So a Salafi is someone who follows the Salaf and their way, and at the head of the Salaf is the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), his companions (radee Allaahu ‘anhum), and the next 2 generations after them and all those who follow them EXACTLY in faith, and Allah says:

    “And the first to embrace Islam of the Muhajirun (those who migrated from Makkah to al-Madeenah) and the Ansar (the citizens of al-Madeenah who helped and gave aid to the Muhajirun) and also those who followed them exactly (in Faith). Allah is well-pleased with them as they are well-pleased with Him. He has prepared for them Gardens under which rivers flow (Paradise), to dwell therein forever. That is the supreme success.” (At-Tawbah 9:100)

    So all a Salafi is someone who tries his utmost to attach himself to the above mentioned principles in his manner of understanding Islam and who tires to emulate the Salaf in their ‘aqeedah, manhaj and manners to the best of his ability, now doubt we fall short in doing so. As for turning Salafiyyah into a group or party, then Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (rahimahullaah) said:

    “No doubt, it is obligatory for all Muslims to adopt the way of the Salaf [i.e. the first generations of the Muslims] as their madhhab, not affiliation to a specific party (hizb) named: ‘The Salafi’s’. It is obligatory for the Islamic Ummah to adopt the way of the Salaf -us-Saalih as their madhhab, not bigotry to those called ‘the Salafi’s’. Pay attention to the difference: There is the way of the Salaf, and there is a party (hizb) called ‘the Salafi’s.’

    What is the objective? Following the Salaf. Why? The Salafi brothers are the closest sect to that which is right, no doubt, but their problem is the same as others, that some of these sects declare others as being misguided, they declare them to be innovators and as being sinners. We don’t censure this, if they deserve it, but we censure handling this bid’ah in this way. It is obligatory for the leaders of these sects to get together and say: ‘Between us is the book of Allah, and the Sunnah of His Messenger (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), so lets us judge by them and not according to desires, opinions and not according to personalities. Everyone makes mistakes and achieves correctness no matter what he has reached with regards to knowledge and worship. Infallibility is [only] in the religion of Islam.”

    In this hadeeth the Prophet guided to the way in which a person secures himself. He doesn’t affiliate him to any sect, only the way of the Salaf-us-Saalih, to the Sunnah of our Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) and the rightly guided caliphs.”

    Do you see, there is the methodology of the Salaf and a hizb called the Salaf, the two are somewhat different! This term ‘Salafi’ is not something new as you claim; rather, it is a term that has been used throughout the ages, for example:

    Imaam as-Sam’aanee (d.562H) said:

    “As-Salafi: this is an ascription to the Salaf and following their ways, in that which is related from them.” (Al-lnsaab, 3/273)

    Imaam ibn al-Atheer (d.630H) said commenting upon the previous saying of Imaam as-Sam’aanee:

    “And a group were known by this ascription (i.e. Salafi).” (Al-Lubaab fee Tahdheebul-lnsaab, 2/162)

    Imaam adh-Dhahabee (d.748H) said concerning the biography of Imaam Muhammad al-Bahraanee:

    “He was a good Salafi with respect to the Religion.” (Mu’jamush-Shuyookh, 2/280)

    Imaam ibn Kathir (d.774H) said:

    “Only the methodology of the Salaf-us-Saalih is to be traversed regarding this issue (such as) Maalik, al-Awzaa’ee, ath-Thawree, al-Layth bin Sa’d, ash-Shaafi’ee, Ahmed bin Hanbal, Ishaaq bin Raahawaih, and others amongst the Imaams of the Muslims from the past and present…” (Tafsir al-Qur’aan al-‘Atheem, 2/230)

    As you can see, all of the above proves that the word ‘Salaf’ and the word ‘Salafi (a follower of the Salaf)’ were known and used 100’s of years before Imam Muhammad ibn ‘Abdul-Wahhab’s time, so it is unfair to label Salafiyyah as a new “thing” that he introduced.

    And dear sister, I have always kept an open-mind, if I were not that way inclined I would have never embraced Islam since my experience with some Muslims was unfavourable to say the least, yet I didn’t judge Islam based upon the ill conduct of many Muslims I encountered.

    My personal opinion (which could be right or wrong), and others may disagree (including my good friend and respected teacher) is that its not an obligation to call oneself Salafi, however, it is obligatory to follow the way of the Salaf, and this is the Salafi methodology, and the Salaf also included the 4 illustrious Imaams.

    I hope that my little ramble has been of some benefit inshaa’Allaah!

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  39. asalam alaykum ,

    ‘Firstly, Hizb at-Tahrîr being a political group does not negate the fact that they have deviated in many areas, especially in areas of methodology.

    As for the claim that they know more about Islam than Salafîs do any day, I highly doubt that. None of the things I’ve seen them produce has shown me any shred of real knowledge. Most of what they display in terms of knowledge is politically focused, misguided ranting. Hizb at-Tahrîr had a very eloborate and flashy booth at the Reviving the Islamic Spirit concert conference a couple years ago (where QSS Canada also had a both to promote our mosque and sell some books to raise funds). One of my good friends, who isn’t all that knowledgeable, was able to dumbfound one of their representatives and recruiters with his rather simple questions. One of them even tried to start an argument with Dr. Bilal Philips who had stopped by the QSS booth for a small visit. Needless to say, Dr. Bilal made him look the fool as well’

    methodology ? well , I HAVE friends who are hizb al tehrir , they follow the hanafee school of thought – imam hanafe- follows the 3 generaitions salaf

    just like you said their are retardid salfis , their are also retardid hizb tehrir , and I havent met any retardid hizb tehrir so far what they have displayed for me is knowledge . ( I have friends who are part of the group and they have explained to me their aqeedah ) havent heard anything devient .

    offcourse muslim rulers should be ruling by the rule of allah , so yes they should speak out against them – im refering to going around bashing other muslims that don’t necesserly follow your way .

    Another lie. many Salafî scholars follow the four (remaining) schools of thought. Shaikhs Ibn Bâz and Ibn ‘Uthaimîn were adherents to the Hanbalî school of thought, Shaikh Muhammad Amîn ash-Shanqîtî of Mauritania was an adherent to the Mâlikî school of thought, and there are other numerous examples.

    see I have heard off that , but then I HEARD fatwa by uthayman and bin baz saying you have to call yourself salafi, I thought we have to be muslims. ( btw a salafi woman herself told me that )

    ‘also , i don’t know wether it has changed in madinah , but their is not even one univeristy for a woman , to take up studys to become a scholar . scholar – not a sheikh ‘

    could you please re read what I said ?

    ‘Firstly, the Islamic University of Madînah is an all-male school’

    that is the point I am trying 2 make !
    I don’t like the way your remarks towards me .

    Secondly, the title shaikh is reserved for specific people. It is either used to refer to someone who is elder in age, such as tribe leaders and elders in one’s family or community; or it is used to refer to those who are elders in terms of their knowledge i.e., scholars. So the term shaikh and scholar (’âlim) are synonymous’

    why on earth are you talking to me like I am stupid !? I am not refering to this type sheikh . btw I am arab so I know what the terms means .

    I know I am ignorant , but I refuse to be a blind sheep whatever anyones tells me I never just drink it , I will check it’s content . I didn’t just believe what that book told me about albani , I was going to see what salafi’s had to say , but it seems to me everyone has a valid argument for everything , btw I learnt to pray properly through his book on the prophets prayer describes book . but now I am having doubts on everything .

  40. aboo uthman – these days everyone proves everything these days , even jamatal el muslimeen , somehow even come out with valid arguments ! do you see why I am called confused about life ?
    everyone these days proves everything , offcourse you have to follow the 1st 3 generaitions after the phrophet swa – you cannot be a sunni if you dont follow the salaf – right now I am just going to sit on the fence and read I have to study islam to understand –

    ‘My personal opinion (which could be right or wrong), and others may disagree (including my good friend and respected teacher) is that its not an obligation to call oneself Salafi, however, it is obligatory to follow the way of the Salaf, and this is the Salafi methodology, and the Salaf also included the 4 illustrious Imaams. ‘

    see why would your teacher disagree with you ? were muslims are we not ?

    another thing is that hadeeth on 73 sects – is a fabricated hadeeth –
    anyways I want to say more but Im tired of thinking and typing and I just want to take a break from thinking .

    walkum wasalam
    I have linked your blog even rasheeds even though I found him sarcastic .
    I have more questions inshallah will ask
    hmm were does spiritualism lay in islam ? FROM A salafi perspective ? and what does it say about tassawuf ?

  41. Salaamun ‘alaykum

    Sister confusedaboutlife, the best thing you can do for yourself in regards to being upon the truth is to make du’a to Allaah sincerely that He guides you to it and allows you to recognize it where ever it is. As for us who have found salafism then we are content walillaahilhamd, and continue to seek Allaah’s guidance. I just wanted to address a few things bi-ithnillaah.

    1. Salafies follow and honour the 4 imams as well as those who were before them who were greater and higher than them in status. No “present day” salafi would ever claim that shaykh ibn baaz had more knowledge then imaam maalik.

    2.Many people try to make the salafi menhaj and it’s adherents look bad by pointing at the ill conducts of some people, or by formulating lies.

    You stated: “offcourse muslim rulers should be ruling by the rule of allah , so yes they should speak out against them – im refering to going around bashing other muslims that don’t necesserly follow your way.”

    Hizbut-tahrir is known for declaring muslims kaafir for commiting a sin. Why is it ok to speak out against the muslim rulers but not others? If a man tells the people “it is ok to worship awliya” is that not ruling by the rule of Allaah? Also why is it ok for people to bash salafies to point out their “misguidances”, but not ok to speak against all the other groups?

    3. Sister there are many female scholars that are well recognized by salafies, there is an e-book at salafimanhaj.com called “The Noble Women Scholars of Hadeeth

    Shaykh ibn baaz had female students that he used to assign classes for them only. From his students are some who became callers to Allaah. Shaykh al-bany also had female students. Umm abdillaah, the daughter of shaykh muqbil, is recognized as a shaykha, in yemen and outside of yemen, she writes many books, some have been translated into english like my advise to the Muslim women. Shaykh muqbil’s wives are also students of knowledge and authors. One book written by one of his wives and translated into english (by salafies) is called “Supporting the rights of the Muslim women” and in the introduction to her book the shaykh muqbil rahimahullaah highly praised it and stated:

    “She (the author) performed a great duty in selecting the topic of the believing women’s rights Many people are neglectful in this area, or they leave it offaltogether. Therefore, she reminded the fathers, close male family members, and husbands about what Allaah has made obligatory upon them, as well as what He has strongly suggested for them to do.”{end quote) Then the shaykh mentioned some proofs in this respect.

    In that institute in yemen, there are women teachers, students, authors, and callers. They have classes from morning to night inside the masjid just like the men, and also have a big library for their research.

    4. Although madinah university is all male, there are many circles of knowledge for sisters and there are female scholars who give lectures in madinah. There are many universities in saudi that are women only, not only in religious studies, but secular as well.

    So the salafi scholars do not neglect, disrespect or consider women inferior. Rather they promote their rights and teach them to the public. Have you heard about the case in Riyaad of a man being lashed because he beat his wife? I refer you to the ebook at salafimanhaj.com called “the family”.

    5. Shaykh albani’s shaykhs included his father, who was a follower of the hanafi mathab,Shaykh Sa’eed al-Burhan whom he studied hanafi fiqh from, and few others, you can get a brief bio here, and full audio here and here in the bottom left hand corner

    Regarding the hadeeth of women being deficient in intellect, upon explaining the meaning of this hadeeth shaykh bin baaz also stressed that it is not permissible to use it as a means of degarding women.

    Sister, basically people lie on the salafi menhaj and it’s scholars to promote their own agendas. Everything you know about ibn baaz, muhammad ibn abdulwahhab, albany, and i’m guess ibn taymiyya too is from statements of those who hate them. Try going directly to the above mentioned scholar’s works (books and lectures) and you would see for yourself that what is said about them are not true.

    We ask Allaah to guide us all to the truth wherever it is and keep us from all falsehood. ameen.

    your sister
    zahra

  42. methodology ? well , I HAVE friends who are hizb al tehrir , they follow the hanafee school of thought – imam hanafe- follows the 3 generaitions salaf

    Yes, methodology. They go about things the wrong way and try to bring about change the wrong way. They go against what Prophet Muhammad and his companions taught us with regards to dealing with the Muslim rulers and leaders, which is to not rebel against them or incite revolt against them. We are taught to be patient in the face of oppression from them and to supplicate to Allah for them.

    but then I HEARD fatwa by uthayman and bin baz saying you have to call yourself salafi, I thought we have to be muslims. ( btw a salafi woman herself told me that )

    Well, if a “salafi woman” told you that, she was mistaken. I know of no verdict from those two shaikhs that say you have to call yourself Salafî. I do know of verdicts from them that say it’s obligatory to follow the way of the “Salaf”. Shaikh al-Albânî on the other hand was of the opinion that calling yourself Salafî in these times is a must in order to distinguish yourself from the various different deviant sects and groups who call themselves by other labels like Sūfî, Shî’î, ‘Alawî, Tablîghî, etc.

    that is the point I am trying 2 make !

    What point is that? That one out of a number of Islamic universities in Saudi is for males only? There are many other co-ed Islamic universities in the Muslim world, a few of them being in Saudi Arabia. Umm al-Qurâ’ is just one example.

    I don’t like the way your remarks towards me .

    Sorry if my words come across as condescending. That’s not the intent behind them at all.

    why on earth are you talking to me like I am stupid !? I am not refering to this type sheikh . btw I am arab so I know what the terms means .

    It seems that you didn’t read the whole of my statement. You said (emphasis added):

    also , i don’t know wether it has changed in madinah , but their is not even one univeristy for a woman , to take up studys to become a scholar . scholar – not a sheikh .

    The words shaikh and ‘âlim (scholar) synonymous i.e., they’re the same thing.

    another thing is that hadeeth on 73 sects – is a fabricated hadeeth

    I’d like to know which hadîth scholar made that verdict and the reason behind his grading. I know of many scholars, past and present, who have graded these narrations regarding the seventy-three sects to be authentic.

  43. Sister I hope our posts do not come out as offensive. I would like to appologize if you feel this way. I, and I think the others here, would just like for you to see that our experiences as salafies is contrary to the stereotypes many people have of salafies.

    It is not that we (as individuals) think we are right in everything and therefore reject critisms, but some of the things you would like us to believe about salafies and salafi scholars are misconceptions we know to be untrue. I hope this discussion changed your opinion of salafies a bit inshallaah. (p.s. br. rasheed wrote an article on this blog titled “Are women inferior to men?”, you may like to read that)

    Inshallaah keep doing your research and ask Allaah to guide you to the truth. Your accountablity is with Allaah and no one else. I guess that is the best advice I can offer for now.

  44. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Dear sister Confused

    I have noticed a lot of “this sister told me” type of comments, but as you stated you are not going to follow stuff blindly, so check to see what “others” are telling you is true, if you are Arab then you should be able to return to the original Arabic sources and check for yourself if the “scholar” really said what others have said he said. If he did, then in what context and how is his statement to be understood!

    Also, you place a lot of focus on how the people act, like you mentioned you have friends in Hizb-ut-Tahrir, this is not a proof of the validity of the manhaj of any group, I too have friend, even relatives who are part of Hizb-ut-Tahrir, I also have friends who are in Jamaa’at-ut-Tableegh, yet, I do not accept their manhaj, and furthermore, I do not accept many aspects of their ‘aqeedah because it is in opposition to the teachings of Islam. Like I said before, the people are one thing; the manhaj is another, so look to what the group teaches, not necessarily the beliefs of some of the adherents to that way.

    May Allaah aid you in your search for the truth and guide us all to that which He loves and is pleased with, ameen!

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  45. (p.s. br. rasheed wrote an article on this blog titled “Are women inferior to men?”, you may like to read that)

    That article wasn’t written by me. I received it in an email from one of the brothers who helps translate articles for asaala.net.

  46. asalam alaykum – zahra- thank you very much for that info , I have never come across what you said – I do agree that are people who out of hate they say slanderous things- if you think something is not on the truth – why can’t you just leave it and walk off ? but that’s humans for you –

    rasheed-

    ‘Yes, methodology. They go about things the wrong way and try to bring about change the wrong way. They go against what Prophet Muhammad and his companions taught us with regards to dealing with the Muslim rulers and leaders, which is to not rebel against them or incite revolt against them. We are taught to be patient in the face of oppression from them and to supplicate to Allah for them’

    with regards to what you said , their is a difference of opinion , but it does not make sense just to sit and be patient – yeah they just continue with their corruption and we just sit and do nothing , we go to heaven for being patient and being oppressed- they go to hell for oppressing us – that kind of thinking does not make sense – on the day of judgment the oppressd will also be asked about allowing being oppressed is that not correct ? – allah does not bring about change unless you try to change the situation

    ‘Well, if a “salafi woman” told you that, she was mistaken’

    I did not doubt her words because she is very hardcore salafi her and her husband read it in arabic .

    ‘The words shaikh and ‘âlim (scholar) synonymous ‘

    how is that ? I thought a sheikh cant make up fatwa’s – were as a scholar has more knowledge – to make ishtihad? correct me if I am wrong .

    ‘I’d like to know which hadîth scholar made that verdict and the reason behind his grading. I know of many scholars, past and present, who have grading these narrations regarding the seventy-three sects to be authentic.’

    see I was also very shocked when I heard that , I will tell you inshallah – I heard this on 3 occasions they got this from 2 different sheikhs – one of their names – have you heard of sheikh nur ? he follows the shaafi madhab .he was one of them, who said it .
    their is another hadeeth I also heard is also fabricated and I constantly hear it – the most hated thing in the eyes of allah is divorce – and that was a salafi who told me that – she’s student of knowledge

    abu othman – yeh Im iraqi /iranin and grew up with some messed up arabic , I have done coursis in arabic – but frankly speaking I cannot understand anything when scholars speak in arabic – because they speak pure classical arabic – my first aim is arabic – which I am so determined to learn – alhamdullah I am one step ahead then some people who don’t know a word of it .
    about what sister’s say , I only listen and check if it is someone I know that is actualy studying the deen otherwise I would just ignore it – my dad says all sorts of stuff about a paticular group – then I show him no it is not true this is not what they belive –

    I used to be a shia – even the fact I don’t believe in it – I still clear up some misconceptions that sunnis have of shia’s – they maybe wrong – but don’t lie about the people of falsehood – and make it look more bad then it realy is – do you know what I am saying ? , you should not do something out of hatred , rather it should be done for sake of truth – hating did not do anyone any good .

    ‘I do not accept their manhaj, and furthermore, I do not accept many aspects of their ‘aqeedah because it is in opposition to the teachings of Islam. ‘

    what do you mean when you say manhaj ? or aqeedah ? when did these terms come about ? did the phrophet say now everyone here are all the points to aqeedah?

    which btw I learned from ibn taymeyah’s book on tawheed which I have no problem with – because one needs to believe in the one and make sure they don’t have shrik in their base of islam – but still when did this idea come about ?

    I would appreciate it if you guys would answer me about spiritualism ? from a salafi manhaj point of view ? (tassawuf)

    zahra – no not all I was not offendid :) thank you everyone
    I will read all the article’s .

    ps . bro othman , the particular friends who I am talking about who are in the hizbtehrir group are very clued up on it – they have been studying within the group – even trying to convert me – which I have been resisting for a very long time !
    and I have never heard them call anyone kafir – but allahu alim .

  47. Sumera says:

    Offtopic comment : I dont think that people who follow madhabs do so in order to be as deviated from the path of RasoolAllah (saw), the whole purpose is to practise and follow Islam as close to the source as possible, as the Prophet (saw) did, as did his companions (raa) and the tabaeen.

    Which is why regardless of which madhab one affiliates themselves with, follow rulings based on strength of evidence and sound chain of narration and constantly do this “vetting” and “searching” instead of becoming complacent that what you believe is “true” and evrything else is “lesser”. Also to be aware that there IS room for a difference of opinion, so if one does something different to how you do it, that doesnt make them “wrong” anymore than what you do is “right”

    Just a wee reminder.

  48. Sumera says:

    Yeah confusedaboutlife – I havent come across many HT members, but the one I know of is very clued up. Im assuming its a result of the “training” they give them, the access to classes, materials and texts?

  49. with regards to what you said , their is a difference of opinion , but it does not make sense just to sit and be patient – yeah they just continue with their corruption and we just sit and do nothing , we go to heaven for being patient and being oppressed- they go to hell for oppressing us – that kind of thinking does not make sense – on the day of judgment the oppressd will also be asked about allowing being oppressed is that not correct ? – allah does not bring about change unless you try to change the situation

    Very few scholars from the Companions and those who followed them differ in this matter. Even Imam Abul-Hasan al-Ash’arî conveys in his Maqâlât al-Islamiyyîn that the People of Sunnah do not rebel or revolt against the rulers; you can see his words translated here.

    How can it not make sense when this is something commanded of us by Prophet Muhammad? Yes, Allah tells us in the Qur’an that He will not change the condition of a people until they change what is with them, but this does not mean that we take up arms and revolt against Muslim leaders and do things in opposition of the way Prophet Muhammad and his companions did things. If you refer to the classical books of Qur’anic exegesis you will see that changing what is with us means changing our their beliefs, our understanding, and our methodology. It means rectifying our Islam and our implementation of it in our daily lives. Only when we rectify these things and correct ourselves so that we are obeying Allah and His messenger in all aspects of our lives as individuals, as families and as communities, will he rectify our affairs as a nation and place righteous leaders over us.

    Oppression is something that is forced upon someone without their permission. It does not make sense for Allah to question us about why we “allowed” ourselves to be oppressed. Who in reality allows themselves to be oppressed? One who is truly oppressed is powerless to stop the oppression he is being subjected to.

    I did not doubt her words because she is very hardcore salafi her and her husband read it in arabic .

    I’m pretty sure the sister who told you this is mistaken. As I mentioned, of the three most knowledgeable scholars of our time, Shaikh al-Albânî is the only one to have said that calling one’s self Salafî is a must. Shaikhs Ibn Bâz and Ibn ‘Uthaimîn did not.

    how is that ? I thought a sheikh cant make up fatwa’s – were as a scholar has more knowledge – to make ishtihad? correct me if I am wrong .

    As I mentioned, the word shaikh is used to refer to two people, one is the elder, and the other is the scholar. Scholars differ in their level of knowledge, with some being more proficient in certain fields more than other scholars. Some scholars convey the opinions of past scholars, whereas other scholars examine the opinions and statements of past scholars as well as the evidences used by them in order to formulate their own opinions (i.e., ijtihâd). Regardless of whether the shaikh being asked a question on religious matters is conveying past knowledge or formulating his own opinion, the answer he gives is called a fatwâ (religious verdict).

    see I was also very shocked when I heard that , I will tell you inshallah – I heard this on 3 occasions they got this from 2 different sheikhs – one of their names – have you heard of sheikh nur ? he follows the shaafi madhab .he was one of them, who said it .
    their is another hadeeth I also heard is also fabricated and I constantly hear it – the most hated thing in the eyes of allah is divorce – and that was a salafi who told me that – she’s student of knowledge

    The hadîths regarding the sects are authentic. I’ve never heard of this Shaikh Nūr or any other scholar of hadîth declare the hadîth fabricated.

    As for the hadîth regarding divorce being hated by Allah, Shaikh al-Albânî has graded it weak and as have others. I can’t recall the other scholars who Shaikh al-Albânî mentioned in his extraction (takhrîj) of this hadîth in his book Silsilah al-Ahâdîth ad-Da’îfah, but Allah willing, if I have time I’ll try to find it again.

  50. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Dear Confused

    May Allaah grant you success in your endeavours to study the Arabic language, ameen!

    It is pleasing to hear that you embraced “Sunni” Islam because it shows that you are a pursuer of truth. I have some friends who used to be Shee’ah and for them it was not an easy thing to do (i.e. become Sunni), since the Shee’ah community in my former hometown is very strong and close knit, but it is Allaah who guides.

    Even is someone is actually studying the Deen still check, we are all human and we all make mistakes and we all may at times misunderstand certain things. I will give you an example, I am a revert to Islam and early on into my reversion I came across a hadeeth that stated that a Muslim cannot inherit from a non-Muslim, when I enquired about this with knowledgeable Muslims, some graduates from the Islamic University of Madeenah I was told that I cant inherit from them, nor can I be left anything in their will as a gift.

    A while later I came across an article on Br. Abu Khaliyl’s website (www.dhk-islam.com) pertaining to this very issue it put the hadeeth into context, I also asked Dr. Saleh as-Saleh (a very close friend and student of Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen), and more recently I came across a fatwa on this issue on the Islam Q&A website, and what I thought all along turned out to be correct, yet I was hasty and told my family to take me out of their will due to me taking from one who studied the deen.

    Another example is that early on into my Islam I was with some knowledgeable brothers, once again some were Islamic University of Madeenah graduates and they told me watching the weather forecast was Shirk, because of my ignorance and my zeal to protect Tawheed I then thought that whoever watches the weather forecast has committed Shirk, and their argument was a strong one, however, after speaking to Dr. Saleh as-Saleh about this I got the opinion of a true scholar, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen, and found out the correct opinion on the said issue.

    What I am trying to say is that once I started to look at what the scholars were actually saying and not what the “knowledgeable” ones were saying I saw that often they would be worlds apart, especially when our only outlet to the scholars is the tad bits of translations that are translated in order to prove peoples points of view, had they been just and translated what the scholar said in full, in context and in full context of all of their opinions on the matter at hand then perhaps we would have had more balanced views instead of being one track minded.

    As for what I said about ‘aqeedah and manhaj, then yes the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) explained numerous tenants of faith and some groups reject many important articles of faith that have been an accepted part of “Sunni” Islam, even though the Prophet (sall-Allaahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) informed us of them, his Sahaabah believed in them and so did the next two generations of Muslims, so what changed, was a new Islam suddenly born 300 years after revelation had ceased?!

    As for tassawuf it depends what you mean by it, if you mean the ascetics of the early Muslims without exaggeration in this matter then that is one thing, but if you mean the modern practices of many of today’s “so called” practitioners then that is another thing all together.

    Yes, some Hizb-ut-Tahrir are very clued up on how to “argue”, but unfortunately they are not clued up on the Prophetic methodology. I know the group well since as I said I have a brother-in-law who used to be with them (he was head of publications) and I have another who is still with them and I have a friend who is a hardcore propagator of their “10 ‘O clock news” e-shots.

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  51. Jazakallaahu khairan brother Aboo Uthmaan.
    I think she is looking for an explanation or meanings of the terms “aqeedah” and “menhaj”. (Is this correct sister, you are trying to understand what the brothers mean by aqeedah and menhaj?)

  52. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    As-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Oh, jazak’Allaahu khairan sister!

    The following is a nice citation explaining the word ‘Aqeedah:

    “(The word) ‘Aqeedah linguistically is derived from the term aqada. In Arabic, one states: ‘Aqada the rope’ when the rope is tied firmly. And: ‘Aqada the sale’ or ‘He settled the sale’ when the person ratifies and contracts a sale or agreement. And Allaah says in the Qur’aan:

    ‘And as for those whom your right hands have made a covenant (Ar., aqadat).’ (4:33)

    And Allaah also says:

    ‘But He will take you to task for the oaths which you swear in earnest (Ar., aqadtum).’ (5:89)

    Which means asserted and adhered to, as proven in the verse:

    ‘And break not oaths after the assertion of them.’ (16:91)

    If one says: ‘Aqadtu such and such’, it means his heart is firm upon such and such. Therefore, ‘Aqeedah or I’tiqad according to the scholars of Islam is: The firm creed that one’s heart is fixed upon without any wavering or doubt. It excludes any supposition, doubt or suspicion.”

    The manhaj is simply the practical application of the ‘Aqeedah. Just to make note of:

    “To each among you we have prescribed a law and a Minhaaj.” (5:48)

    We see in this aayah the word “Minhaaj” used, essentially it means the same as Manhaj, they are the same words, and what is notable about the usage of this word in the context of the aayah is that it is used in a singular forum, had it been plural it would have read “Manaahij” or “Manaaheej”, so the aayah reads:

    “To each among you we have prescribed a law and (one) clear way.” (5:48)

    Perhaps Br. Rasheed can add more meat to what I have posted!

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  53. I found an explanation of the difference between creed (‘aqîdah) and methodology (manhaj) by Shaikh ‘Ubaid al-Jâbirî. You can read it’s translation here.

  54. asalam alaykum , I actualy just came back from the salafi conference , in luton , a little dissapointed , but did learn something about aqeedah from a sister , yes she told me the same thing as what you said othman . I realy want to reasearch into this , as I just cant get my hea round the idea , as why do the salafi’s think they have the right aqeedah ? what about people who choose to follow a school of thought ?
    the sister also explained to me , that ibn taymiyyah , when he wrote up the aqeedah he simplified it for us , were as the other classical scholars , their written aqeedah was more complicated .
    Thank you everyone for the helpful information , definitly will read all of it , inshallah going to purchase ibn tayymiyah book .
    Also she also said , that if I read that aqeedah book , it is logical that the aqeedah connects with the 73 sect hadeeth , I told her don’t understand how, but inshallah Im going to chase that hadeeth up .

  55. Aboo Uthmaan says:

    Walaikum salaam wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh

    Dear Confused

    There is no difference in the Usool of the Salafi ‘aqeedah and that of the 4 Madhhab’s, since already illustrated, all a Salafi is someone who follows what the Salaf were upon (that includes what the 4 Imaams were upon). Understanding the religion of Islam upon the understanding of the Sahaabah (radee Allaahu ‘anhum) is not only something that is logical to do, it is also an obligation for us to do. So there is no difference between the “Salafi” and the 4 Imaams, where the difference lies is in that you have people who say that they are Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah and that you have to follow one of the 4 Madhhab’s, yet they themselves only do so in fiqh (and even that at times is dubious), whereas they follow the creed of individuals who came after the 4 Imaams, why say that you have to follow the 4 Imaams but reject following them in their ‘aqeedah?

    More often than not the creed of today’s proponents of following a Madhhab is in stark opposition to the Imaam / Madhhab they are claiming to follow. Don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong in following a Madhhab, just as long as one applies some the rules which I think you yourself mentioned in an earlier post.

    If you have any specific questions then please don’t hesitate to ask, I am sure one of the brothers or sisters who have been posting here will be able to answer your query inshaa’Allaah ta’aala!

    Was-salaamu ‘alaikum

    Aboo Uthmaan

  56. Pingback: The “Experts” are at it Again … « Rasheed Gonzales

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