Salafism, Do You Really Get It?
September 20, 2009 265 Comments
I had originally began this article a few months ago in hopes that it would be completed well before Ramadân. Circumstances however, have prevented its completion until fairly recently. I’ve been waiting on some feedback from some brothers I sent the completed article to before; so far only a few brothers have responded with their input. I thought, however, that I’d post it now despite not hearing back from some of them, since most of the feedback I was getting while working on it was fairly positive.
I’m not sure how this article’s going to be received, especially by some of my other salafî friends. I hope, however, that it brings about more benefit than harm and that it causes those who take it for what it is as a cause to reevaluate their thinking and mindset.
Here’s the link to the article: Salafism, Do You Really Get It? An Actual Methodology or Merely Empty Slogans? (PDF), as well as a bit from the beginning for those interested (Allah willing, what’s mentioned in this excerpt doesn’t become the focus of this piece—as it’s just an explanation for my inactivity):
My wife and I had a discussion not too long ago about what Salafism is. That discussion is the basis of this article. Before I get into the whole topic of Salafism, however, I first wanted to address those who regularly visit my blog to read my posts. As they’re well aware, I’ve gone on a bit of a hiatus and haven’t posted anything of real substance in quite some time, save the odd quote to remember or whatnot. I’m only mentioning what follows, because firstly, I feel I owe my regular readers a bit of an explanation for the inactivity (some have asked me what’s up) and secondly, because some of the reasons behind it are related to what I want to discuss in this article. So please note that this is not a rant or a complaint; I’m just explaining my situation.
To sum it up in a single word, I’ve become jaded. Those of you who regularly read my writings may have gotten a tiny sense of this in my What’s the Deal with QSS?! article and its subsequent comments, while a few of you who have actual contact with me, whether through the internet or in person, have probably heard me express it or at least hint at it. For those thinking that I’m going through what’s been termed “salafî burnout”, I’m not. I’m just fed up. Fed up of all the turmoil, fed up of all the bickering between Salafîs (between laymen and scholars alike), fed up of all the retards. As such, I made a conscious decision to step back and take a break from translating texts, from participating on internet discussion forums, and from Islamic propagation in general. I’ve been preoccupying myself largely with worldly matters and living life as any normal mundane person would. Being that I’ve been a bit of a loner my entire life, I’ve been restricting myself to only showing my face at Friday sermons, QSSC’s occasional functions; not really much else.
With that said, let’s get back to the topic.
Read on … Salafism, Do You Really Get It? An Actual Methodology or Merely Empty Slogans? (PDF).
Oh, and to all my brothers and sisters: may you all have a blessed Îd; may Allah accept from us and from you and may He forgive us and you for our shortcomings.
Update: After reading the article, be sure to check out the comments for a lot more discussion.
About Rasheed Gonzales
Rasheed Gonzales 
As salaamu alaikum,
Akhee I wanted to know what was your take on this:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muhaajir/message/14032
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
Unfortunately, I’m not subscribed to the group and thus can’t view the message.
I think I posted it, but this is the list of all the “Salafi Masjids” in North America. So if you’re not on the list, is it assumed you’re not on it?
You posted it twice. Both times the spam filters caught it and marked it as spam because of all the links it contained. I’ve deleted them though … mainly because I think these lists are retarded. I even poked fun at these lists in my article.
Assalamu ‘Allaykum,
Akhee, no offense but I don’t think it is necessary to post this on the forum. I mean it has become common amongest ahl bidah that they would use such an article in order to damage Salafiyyah. In other words, I don’t think there is benefit in posting such stuff. And Allah knows best.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
Posting what to what forum?
Wa alaikum salaam akhee kareem Abu Zayd,
I don’t know if you were directing that at me or not, but you and I share the same sentiments, as far as it not being a benefit posting this kind of stuff. I was interested in Bro Rasheed’s take on this stuff. The original posters of this are the ones who should be advised. And the “damage” to Salafiyyah has come from within, if anything.
Faheem, brother Abu Zayd could have been referring to the article I wrote (i.e., Salafism, Do You Really Get It?) as it’s not exactly clear from his comment, which is why I asked.
Yes, I wasn’t sure, but just in case….But I don’t see how the article could be used by ahlul bid’ah, because it was EXTREMELY beneficial!! As a matter of fact, I am about to re-read it right now!
Assalamu ‘Allaykum,
Sorry I wrote that in hurry. What I am saying is that the whole tone of the article seems as if you got bored of da’wah salafiyyah. People will use this type of information to attack the da’wah. You don’t know how many times I’ve heard people say, ‘so-and-so was serious hardcore salafi, but he only shows up to friday prayers now.’
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
If that’s what you got from the article, Abu Zayd, then I’m afraid you’ve done what I was hoping people wouldn’t: focus on the explanation I gave at the beginning of the article for my recent inactivity instead of focusing on the point behind the article itself.
Ask anyone of my close friends and they’ll tell you that I’m very passionate about Salafism, which is one of the reasons I felt the need to write the article. Many people who claim to adhere to it simply just don’t get it and it leaves me extremely frustrated at times. I’m not bored of the da’wah. I’m tired of the BS from some of its claimants and adherents, whether from its laymen or its learned people. If I was bored of the da’wah and didn’t care much for it anymore, I wouldn’t have written the article in the first place.
Faheem, it makes me very happy to know that some of my readers find my writings to be of some benefit. It reassures me that my efforts (however tiny they are) aren’t a complete waste; my Allah reward and bless you for your comments.
So you finally completed it. Enjoyed the read.
Yeah, thank Allah. Posted it on ‘Îd morning before heading out to the prayer. Glad you liked it. Coming from one of my best friends, it means a lot! Give me a call if you’re free this weekend or something. We need to hook up; we’ll go out for burgers or something. There’s a dope burger joint you’ve got to try. It’s Nasir and Munir approved!
good article rasheed. May Allah reward you in full. I hope your article will open the eyes of some people who’ve been living in the igloo of “salafism” where every other “non-salafi” muslim is considered an opponent.
As Salamu laykum
Ok have not looked at the PDF yet but will inshaallah, but the thing I wanted to post is one ahul bid’ah already knows all about the Salafi’s dirty laundry basically cuz the salafi’s display it all over the Internet, in the masjid, MP3’s and Cd’s… so know point in trying to hide anything or be paranoid. Second when I entered this I was told Salafism was Islam in its pure form, but my impression is that some people think they are not apart of the Ummah anymore like they are a special class of infallible Muslims, I personally think many of our issues could be solved with more knowledge of usool of fiqh – like just because you follow shaykhs ABC’s ijtihad its not incumbent for the whole Ummah to do so as well..that’s basic stuff that many us don’t get even after being told. If we insist that we all have to agree on the foundations and the branches as well then we are destroyed because human beings where not created to agree about every single last detail of anything… but all this bickering over branch issues is from Shaytaan to make us weak. I speak to random Muslims all the time and they all for the most part have athari aqidah but they are not trying to openly affiliate themselves with the Salafis because some of us got serious issues mentally and spiritually and that not hate that just being truthful.
Asalamu alaikum.
Read the article. Don’t see the ‘jadedness’ in it. Personally, i’ve never thought this was a struggle between those who erred, during their attempt to be sincere. I feel very very strongly that this entire madness can be narrowed down to insincerity and corruption, period. Alhamdulillah, as time has passed we see their corruption spread among them as well. Now no one is off bounds. How long before they openly declare salafiyah to be a deviant ‘manhaj’ altogether? I give them another 10 yrs.
Alhamdulillah, the sunnah is whatever it was. Some people tried to disrupt it and failed. That’s all. There has NEVER been an internal struggle for the sunnah, among its followers in the past 10 yrs. This entire episode was an attempt to derail our belief system. Don’t be jaded. We won! I knew we would..
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah Abu Talha,
Being that sincerity is a matter of the heart that is only truly known by Allah and no one else, I tend to shy away from such thoughts and accusations. Don’t get me wrong, while a person’s sincerity (or in this case, supposed insincerity) can be perceived through various things (e.g., the person’s actions and statements), there’s no definite way, other than perhaps “hearing it from the horse’s mouth” so to speak, of knowing one way or another. For that reason alone, I prefer to leave such matters out of the discussion. In the end, Allah will judge them for that any way, so they’ll get their just desserts if that really is the case (i.e., they were insincere).
As salamu alaykum wa rahmatullah,
Rasheed, I pray this reaches you in the highest of Emaan and Health inshallah. I didn’t know where to post this so inshallah I’ll post here. Rasheed, can you inform me on where is the best place online to purchase all the published works from the Jordian Mashaykh including Shaykh Saleem inshallah. It would be very much appreciated.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
I don’t know where you’ll be able to find all of their published works as some of their previously published books are undoubtedly out of print (especially their older stuff), but you might be able to find a few of Shaikhs Ali’s, Saleem’s, and Mashhur’s books on the QSSC site. Not all the books we have on sale are posted, however, so it might be good to email the admin asking for a list of the books we do have on sale. I think we may have a few by Shaikh Abu Anas and a couple of their other lesser known colleagues as well (can’t recall their names at the moment–I just woke up).
May Allah reward and bless you for your supplication; may He grant you the same. Best of “luck” with your search.
As salaamu alaikum,
This article is very relevant, especially since the “correct salafi stance” concerning some individuals and groups have not been “correct” at all; rather, they have been one-sided. I myself was cautioned against concerning Abul Hasan al-Ma’ribee, and by default, Abu Usaamah ath-Thahabi, and only because I was able to read what Shaykh Saleem al-Hilaalee said concerning it. It didn’t make me a difference either way, but after reading the Shaykh’s take on it, I knew I wasn’t compelled to take the position that this man had to be warned against. And as it was popular some years ago, if you took a position other than what Shaykh Rabee’ said, you were accused of tamyee’, opposing the sunnah, and whatever other rallying cry they were able to come up with.
Now, these issues don’t mean anything, but the caution remains, even to the point where people who I know don’t even know how to recite the faatihah correctly, but they know that they should stay away from me, and for NO other reason except I didn’t tow the line. It’s sad the number of clones that are walking around, and how some of these students are using what I call a “bogeyman” approach, where they are using principles of specialized sciences (jarh wa ta’deel) to create paranoia in the laymen, and even in other students! And overall the “salafi da’wah” has been devastated, but al hamdu lillaah, the da’wah of islaam is still in effect!
as salaamu ‘alaykum akhee, hayyaakAllaah. This blog entry kind of expresses the similar condition of many other Salafees, who’d love to have some respite from constant argumentation and bickering amongst themselves regarding such-and-such.
However akhee I request you NOT to stop translating texts, etc. If brothers at salafimanhaj.com, etc stop translations, then all we are left with are SP, Troid and SunnahPublishing! Taking a break from all these is probably a very good idea, and you do not have to get involved in all the issues anyway. But translation of general beneficiary matters and refutation of general innovations and innovators would be of great benefit to the laymen inshaaAllaah.
I like the fact that some of the Salafees have now turned their attention to asharis.com and abovethethrone.com types of website, where there are refutations but not defamations of contemporaries. Sites like sunnah.org have great deal of ‘refutations’ of Salafees from GF Haddaad and I wish there were more refutation of him and his articles, instead of wasting all day ‘refuting’ those who listen to Salafee Shaykhs like ‘Alee al-Halabee, al-Maghrawee, etc.
You get the point. Very few of us in the West can actually understand Arabic unless it is translated and if Salafee brothers who DO understand Arabic do not engage in more translation of authentic materials, innovation and its people would keep rising. InshaaAllaah keep using the blessings that Allaah ‘azza wa jal has given you for the service of the Ummah of RasoolAllaah, peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah Aboo Yoosuf,
May Allah reward and bless you. Allah’s is the praise, there are still quite a few brothers and sisters benefitting the English speaking population with some nice translations; the thing is, you have to really search for them. Of course, a large bulk of what is out there in English with respect to Salafi material is put out by the guys at SP, TROID, Sunnah Publishing, and those affiliated with them in some way (this includes the two sites you mentioned: Asharis & AboveTheThrone, which are obvious SP’s), but there are those who are putting out a good effort to produce material in English for those who cannot understand Arabic.
Brother Jalal Abualrub and his son Amr (IslamLife.com) are very busy with things.
There is also a site that Amr (Abualrub) showed me that has some pretty good stuff (although some still turmoil related): http://www.athaar.org/, which has a blog (http://blog.athaar.org/) and forum (http://forum.athaar.org/) associated with it.
And there are still others (including many blogs and forum sites, some of which I have a lot of issues with, but still think have some very beneficial offerings), that aren’t coming to mind right now.
As salaamu alaikum,
Yes, it is indeed important that someone takes up the task of producing works that are not only beneficial, but relevant! We still see stuff nowadays, like people trying to convince us to not take from Shaykh Faalih, but he was just “Allaamah” yesterday! The same with Shaykh Ali Hasan al-Halabi, and a host of others who have been maligned in the name of manhaj. And overall, our communities are in shambles! I am right across the bridge from Philadelphia, a haven for this fitnah! You go to the Salafee masjids, and you almost feel like you have to watch your back, that is how bad the tension is there. And somehow, the leaders, and the movers and shakers of these communities don’t think it’s important to reach out to people, or to cater to the concerns of the members.
It’s like we missed the spiritual boat completely! And there has been an influx of lectures lately, but me personally, I am tired of hearing all the kalaam, but we don’t see it manifested in the communities. I mean, there was a lecture recently about the importance of education, and in the Salafee communities, we don’t have any schools, and nothing really cohesive as a foundation for education. We have nothing to empower the people, nothing for the development. But we have time for refutations about people who are in another part of the world, or we publish books about matters that are not of immediate concern for the ills plaguing our communities.
As salaamu ‘alaykum.
Rasheed I have read your articles and the comments from those read it too.
This is what I have understood from it; you are fed up with the Salafees: the claimants. You love Salafiyyah and want to see those around to be serious about what they are claiming.
Rasheed, you want to see brothers reciting the Book of Allaah instead of listening Qeela wa Qal, nasheed and other rubbish they listen to.
You want them to read books of ahaadeeth with its shurooh instead of reading useless magazines and kuffar newspapers.
Where I live it is fashionable to say ‘Anaa Salafee’ I told them privately and publicly that we should be ashamed of saying we follow Quraan and Sunnah with understanding of the Salaf. Not only are we unaware of who the Salaf are? We are unaware how they practised Islaam.
Many of those who claim to follow Salafiyyah have not read the Quraan or books of hadeeth, yet they claim to follow it with the understanding of the Salaf!!
Assalamulaikum Wa Rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,
Originally from Bangladesh, I went to the US in 1998 and was introduced to the proper aqeedah by a senegalese brother, thereafter I have been following the salafi manhaj to the best of my ability. I lived in New York City from 1999 to 2007 when I helped the Muslim Student’s Associations in the Borough of Manhattan Community College and City College of New York, establish the Salafis as the people who run things and helping eliminate the Sufi, Ikhwaani and Shia ideologies. Although for a time being in the early 2000s we were caught up in the fitnah, the Salafis in NYC are more or less united under Masjid Ahlul-Quraan Wa Sunnah, especially thanks to the efforts of Brother Zahid Rasheed.
Due to legal reasons I immigrated to Canada in 2007 and have been terribly disheartened by the situation here. Not only it is a totally different sort of lifestyle from NYC but the community seems to be broken up and there is a serious lack of communication between people. When I visited the “great” TROID for the first time, I was surprised at the lack of both activities and adab. Living in a corner in North Etobicoke I to this date have not been able to find a decent set of people I can actually hang with and whereas I was really active in NYC to the extent of publishing magazines and two booklets “A Simple Message” and “A guide to Prayer and Purification” which were distributed en masse among the prison population, I found the lack of good companionship here has been a massive hit to my emaan and consequently my activities, and the condition of TROID did not encourage me to consider that place as a good place to hang out either.
Insha’Allaah I’ve managed to move to a location more central now (Bathhurst and Steeles, yes a very Jewish neighborhood, unfortunately), but perhaps this will encourage me to be able to visit QSSC and Abu Huraira Center a bit and I do plan to attend the QSSC conf even though its sad that not all the Shuyookh who were scheduled to come havemanaged it.
Maybe I’ll meet you there insha’Allaah.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, brother Mehdi.
I’m sorry to hear about the hit you’ve taken to your iman since moving here. If it’s one thing I can say about the Salafi Muslim community here in Toronto is that everyone is very distant and separate, either because of the disunity and the differences between various factions, or because of worldly reasons (e.g., work, school, distance that brothers/sisters live from each other).
If you attend the conference, just look for a skinny bald-headed Filipino brother with a small goatee. I’ll probably be running around helping since one of the other brothers took the liberty of volunteering my services, heh. I think he has me at the registration table and the bookstore. So just introduce yourself if you come, insha’allah.
As salaamu alaikum,
It is really depressing to always hear these stories from people when they encounter Salafees. Why is it we read these noble Ahaadith from the Prophet (peace be upon him) about adab, brotherhood, kindness, gentleness, good manners, etc., but it is so hard for the people to implement? I can’t understand how the manners will help tilt the meezaan for us, but we throw them out, especially in allowable matters of differing. And the layman suffers greatly, because they become more confused. Can you imagine how many people are walking around like our brother Mehdi? I come across them all the time, especially in this area where I am, because as I stated in a previous post, I am a bridge away from Philadelphia, which could be considered a headquarters for this inappropriate lack of communication and manners with the Muslims. They end up becoming weak in eemaan, trying to live up to the “standards” of Salafiyyah! May Allaah help us and improve our conditions. Ameen.
salam alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatu,
I am from mississauga, and we got a very good masjid down here, not salafiya, but a lot of salafi brothers and a good community, all the brothers are there for eachother, you can definately feel the love, masjid al-farooq, come by sometime you will definately feel at home.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh,
Masjid Farooq is a nice place, masha’allah. We brought Shaikh Ali Hasan there to give a talk during one of his recent visits. It’s quite a ways from where the brother lives though (I met him today, masha’allah).
as salaamu ‘alaykum brother Rasheed. Do you have any info on brother Aboo Maryam Isma’eel Alarcon and his website al-ibaanah? The website was very beneficial but it’s been closed for quite some time now. Is there a way to email or contact Aboo Maryam?
Assalamualaikum,
Ismaeel is probably traveling, he works for the EPA (or is that the DEA) and is regularly posted overseas. I have his personal email but I should ask him before I give it out.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
Like brother Mehdi, I’d guess that Ismaaeel’s probably busy with work or something. I haven’t heard from him in a long time, but if you like I’ll try emailing him to see how he’s doing.
Those wondering why I’ve stickied this post (i.e., why it’s now back at the top of the front page of my blog), I’ve done so because apparently, there are those involved in inviting the youth to Islam, some new up-and-coming celebrity speakers, who still just don’t get it.
akhee it is one of the best articles i have read on salafiyyah
as salamu aleykum
akhi rasheed you crack me up with your slick lines. I’m assuming you are speaking of mutah beales latest rant about the rahma conference in toronto. The only excuse i have for him is that he gets his info from the wrong sources, or as you said is inflicted by ascribing to salafism while not understanding it.
he said “I don’t sit with the people of innovation and I always stress if I’m called out to do a talk for the youth as a motivational speaker then to not have any other speakers unless they are upon the methodology of the Salaf”
funny he says this, when just couple weeks ago he had a lecture at daru-uslam centre in thorncliffe, head of the tablighi jamaat in the city.
Masjid Dar Us Salaam in Thorncliffe Park?!?! Are you serious?! Wow. Now that’s downright hilarious!
Btw, from what it seems, the two celebrity speakers were only on the flyer for the Rahma conference taking place in Edmonton (a place, from what I’m told, is in dire need of Islamic propagation), not the one taking place in Toronto.
Edit: Straight off Dar Us Salaam’s own site, the proof is in the pudding, as they say:
“I don’t sit with the people of innovation and I always stress if I’m called out to do a talk for the youth as a motivational speaker then to not have any other speakers unless they are upon the methodology of the Salaf nd are known among the ulema and the salafi community to be upright.” Or so he claims … .
Btw, while Dar Us Salaam is definitely one of their main centres, I wouldn’t say that it’s the head … I think that crown still belongs to Madina Masjid on Danforth Ave.
May Allah reward and bless you, brother Abdullah, for your words.
As-Salamu Alaikum…
Where did brother Mutah say this? I’ve met the brother a few times, and it would be disappointing to see that he’s gone that path.
Link would be appreciated.
al-Falastini – The source is here.
When will such embarrassment end? Is this in competition with Moosaa’s recent fit to see which is more ridiculous, senseless, and short-sighted?
One of the most devastating hallmarks of SP/TROID is their utter lack of ta’seel and tafseel with regards to nearly any branch of knowledge. As a result, we end up having to witness this type of behavior.
I mean, putting aside for a minute the fact that the principle of boycotting innovators and not mixing with them is a principle that varies in application and is not absolute as opposed to what they love to try to convince people into believing…
Has anyone from the list of speakers even actually been declared to be from Ahl al-Bid’ah?
And which innovation was it specifically that expelled them from Ahl as-Sunnah?
Where’s the specifics to make such a claim?
I want to know specifically what it is from each speaker, or even one, which has removed them from Ahl as-Sunnah.
Not an honest mistake or unintended slip that simply resembles a stance or point of belief held by Ahl al-Bid’ah, but EXACTLY which innovation is with any of the speakers reaching the level which removes them from being within Ahl as-Sunnah.
S-p-e-c-i-f-i-c-a-l-l-y.
To Allah is our complaint..
By Allah, if someone accused another of murdering, raping, fornicating, stealing, drug dealing, robbing, or any other heinous crime related to this dunyaa, we would not accept such an accusation without proof.
Yet a people accuse others with regards to their deen, the greatest matter upon which the heavens and earth were created, and others don’t think twice before embracing such a claim.
When such behavior is witnessed, it truly exposes exactly how much one magnifies and glorifies the deen in their heart.
The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said: “It is enough to call a man a liar that he narrates everything he hears.”
And he (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said: “I urge you to be truthful, for truthfulness leads to righteousness, and righteousness leads to Paradise. A man will continue to be truthful and seek to speak the truth until he is recorded with Allaah as speaker of truth (siddeeq). And beware of lying, for lying leads to immorality and immorality leads to Hell; a man will continue to tell lies until he is recorded with Allah as a liar.”
Where is the amaanah SP/TROID?
Which one are you hopeful of being recorded as with Allah – a truthful person or a liar?
Where is your fear of Allah?
Did it not please you enough to be astray on your own, that you took it upon yourself to lead astray others who just so happen to be famous and influential?
I threaten you brothers with the Day of Judgement.
Death is very near. Realize that embracing the truth is an honor, as opposed to insisting on remaining in error for the sake of saving face and hiding that you have been wrong for all of these years.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahamtullah, al-Falastini.
Yusuf posted the link to TROID’s forum where their admin posted a copy of Mutah’s email.
Disappointment isn’t the word for the feelings I have about this farce. There aren’t a lot of things that happen nowadays with these guys that bothers me anymore; I’ve been through and seen way too much crap to lose sleep over the things these retards do. This thing, however, bugs me. And it bugs me a lot, so much so that I was bitching about it to my wife all morning (it would have been all day, but I had to drop her and the kids off at some gardening program in the west end that she had signed the kids up for).
I might write more about this later if I get my thoughts gathered and organized, but for now, all I can say is this is just plain, flatout stupid.
Salaams Rasheed,
Are you SURE you weren’t part of that gardening program? lol
Seriously though, this is indeed sad, the horrendous display of double standards. How are newcomers to the deen suddenly thrust into the spotlight because of past fame even able to say anything against established students of knowledge? They might have trouble in a rap battle against these students, let alone an exchange of knowledge and wits!!
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Faheem.
Yeah, I’m pretty sure. I ended up going home after dropping them off and got some of my MW2 on while my youngest, Saleem, slept on the couch (but shhhh on that!).
That whole celebrity thing is one of the issues that’s been swirling around in my head since this whole thing with Mutah Beale and the Rahma conference popped up, but more on that later. Although I always thought 2Pac was wack and wasn’t really big on a lot of west coast hip hop (I never even heard of the Outlawz until a year or so ago), I’m not going to bag on him about that stuff (I was more into east coast artists, mostly guys known for the “conscious” stuff like the Native Tongues crew … I think Illadelph Halflife was the last hip hop album I bought before getting back into alt-rock, triphop and all this other crap—my musical tastes were pretty eclectic to say the least).
yes akhi rasheed, please write a note about this issue, alot of hard work went into this program, and people in edmonton were so excited until this rant, and now some of them are confused on attending this conference. and if u accept i will pitch the idea of posting you response on the rahma conference to the brother running the website.
and on a side note, whats your opinion of shadeed muhammed and fareed abdullah
In all honesty, brother, I think it would take me too long to organize the thoughts swirling in my head to write something up—at least, something that I’d feel was done correctly and that I’d be satisfied with. Being that the Edmonton Rahma conference is scheduled at the end of the month, there is some time to prepare something, but not to the standard of research I’d like. I’ve already got a number of things I can touch on, especially with regards to role models and public figures and the responsibilies they bear. There’s a lot of good points that were touched on by Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad in Rifqan Ahl as-Sunnah bi Ahl as-Sunnah. So, we’ll see if I can muster up the strength and energy to write something.
I’m not big on using the whole celebrity thing to push Islamic propagation. Personally, I see it as a type of whoring one’s self and one’s past in order to achieve some sort of notoriety or standing among people, not that I think that’s what the brother’s doing per se. Although I’m not big on it, if it works in attracting people to focusing more on Islam and being pious, then whatever floats your boat, as they say.
As for the two you mention, I don’t know much about either of them. I’ve only heard of good things from both, mostly from others (e.g., my friend Ali Sabir in Detroit who speaks well of Shadeed, as well as the one brother who comments here on my blog who’s mentioned him in a good light … Aboo Yoosuf, if I’m not mistaken). From the little I know of both, they seem to shy away from contraversial issues and try to stay out of the lime-light. Other than that, I can’t really say much else.
As slmu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu
Dear brothers, from my years of observation as follows:
First its was to support jimas, ali at timimi, shaikhs of jordan…..
Secondaly, turn against the students and scholars who do not agree, create a big faasad in the west….
thirdly, after becoming lauging stock in the west, bring on waanabi tullabil ilmi, bring jarh wataadil, and this became the deen and dawah
fourthly, free yourselves from the corruption created, accuse others for the problems, then start your own league of scholars….
Fifthly, people hate us, well next best thing is to bring the ikhwani manhaj of self propagation, look at “the student of knowledge abu khadijah…..” also bring the biggest criminal, sinner and promote him to parrot what you want as the “youths are with them”….
sixthly, the waanabi duaat, have no crediale ilm or amal or have the level to discuss issues that is beyond their level….
seventhly, the sheeps who ate anthing that is given to them, the muaqalids of the worst kind, who will defend baatil, corrupt manhaj…..
eightly, i say now to all who read this, start defending the deen from these ignorant rabblers, fitnah mongers of the west, fame seekers, family destroyers, speak with them, ask for “what allah said and themessenger said”, not fulaan…..
1. I ask anyone who has links to their forums to post and not fear them, tell them to give proof what they prevent the post being put up?
2. question them about their tawbah, and error the have made publicaly, where is their tawbah?
3. co-operate with your brothers, east or the west, upon birr and taqwa upon the manhaj of the salaf. with sincere advice.
Salam ‘alaik Akh Rasheed.
Someone shared this on Multiply:
http://firkatunnajiya.multiply.com/journal/item/296
Quote:
“One who warns against Salafee Maraakiz such as Salafi Publications in the UK (speaking against them calling it ‘jihaad against the deviants’) or TROID in Toronto (labelling them ‘hadaadees (extremists) from TROID in Toronto’) all the while working openly with the hizbiyyeen and ahlul-bid’ah all in the name of Salafiyyah? He cooperates with Zakir Naik, Yaasir Qadhi, Abu Muslimah, QSS, Jim’iyyah Ahle-Hadith (Green Lane Mosque, B’ham, UK) and just about everyone else waging war against the salafee manhaj whilst wearing the thobe of Ahlus-Sunnah. He has been warned against by the scholars; the likes of Shaykh Rabee’ Ibn Haadee of Makkah, Shaykh ‘Ubayd al-Jaabiree and Shaykh Muhamamd Ibn Haadee of Madeenah and Shaykh Falaah Ismaa’eel of Kuwait.”
Thought u’d like to know…
Wa ‘alaik as-salam wa rahmatullah, Mohamed.
Yeah, I saw it this morning when I checked my email. TROID had sent an email to their mailing list with a link to their forum containing the posts. I skimmed through it this morning and quite honestly, it really shows just how devoid of any blessings these guys are. Their warnings and refutations, as is proven over and over again, are devoid of any real evidences. The blind leading the blind is what it all amounts to. It’s sad, it’s disgusting and it’s pathetic.
… and some people will wonder why I’m so jaded.
My advice to the brothers and sisters organizing the Rahma conference: take what Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad said to us when Shaikh Rabi’ al-Madkhali was warning against Abdulmonem and attending QSS’s conferences, “There is Sufficiency For You In Those Who Come.” If Allah deems what you’re doing as good and you have your intentions in check, then be content that He’ll make this conference a success and full of benefit and blessings.
Let these people (in the blog link) have the sense of fake piety and righteousness, claiming to be the “Saved Sect” and anyone not on their boat from the 72 sects in hellfire. While some people wrongly use Imam Ibn Uthaymeen’s video in which he criticised those who have taken this hizbiyyah mentality, it is indeed true that their self-praise and approval of one another is very much what Imaam Ibn ‘Uthaymeen mentioned in his speech.
How hypocritical of the likes of these people to warn against Abu Usamah saying “he warns against SP/TROID calling them Haddadis”, while these are the people that warned against Abu Usamah calling him a hizbi in the first place! And if you take Shaykh Rabee’s saying “Hizbis are worse than innovators” on its face value, here’s 2+2=4:
1. Abu Usamah is a hizbi
2. Hizbis are worse than innovators
3. Innovators are cursed by Allah
4. Abu Usamah is cursed by Allah, rather it is worse!
La hawla wa la quowwata illa billah. I suggest brothers have a read of what Imam al-Albani mentioned in a sad and sarcastic manner here:
http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1204
(Erroneous principles that some youth act on)
Make no mistake, it is the sites such as salafitalk that tarnish the reputation of well-known Salafees in the disguise of refuting their errors, and when the Salafees in turn warn against salafitalk and its associates, they become hypocritical in saying that the dispraised one is dispraised because he warns against Salafees! Such a vicious circle of ta’assub, we seek refuge in Allah from it.
I can’t be bothered to read thoroughly. It’s the same method, they’d “hypnotize”/brainwash with all the daleels and quotes from the Salaf as an introduction, before they begin their refutation.
I personally had enough, even with my condition here in my country, with some brothers who are just like SP/Troid.
I’d agree with your advice, Akh Rasheed.
I myself personally, took the advice of a brother who’s studying in Madeenah. I don’t pay heed to way the so-called Salafis here in my country would say. My only concern is what I’m gonna do is based on knowledge, seeking Allah’s Pleasure and for the benefit of the community. The rest I leave it to Allah.
By the way akhee, may I post the tele-link with Shaykh Abdul Muhsin on my blog?
as salamu aleykum ya ikhwaan
i’ve read over the post by troid, and subhan allah it seems like a bunch of 15 year olds wrote it, so devoid of proof and mentioning ayaats and ahadeeth that has nothing to do with the issue of the speakers..unless they deem the speakers to be hypocrites or from those who fabricate ahadeeth, are rafidha, mutazila or jahmiya.
as for jim3yat ahl al-hadeeth, they should listen to the praises sheikh abdur rahman al-sudais had for the jim3iya in his visit last summer
Sure you can, bro. Feel free.
Okay let me have a go at this connect-the-dots, six degrees of separation of game that TROID is playing.
First, TROID has made this connection: Kamal El-Makki -> Ali at-Tamimi -> Sayyid Qutb -> ‘Abdullah ‘Azzam -> UBL
Okay.. so, let me try this. Let’s see if I can get to UBL faster.
TROID praised Ibn ‘Uthaymeen who was praised by ‘Abdullah ‘Azzam, and who also himself (i.e., Ibn Uthaymeen) once praised UBL.
There we go, that didn’t take long it looks like I outdid them.
TROID -> Ibn ‘Uthaymeen -> ‘Abdullah ‘Azzam / UBL
…Far fetched?
Suppose a young person goes YouTube and comes across both this video and this one, and along with that they read ‘Azzam said:
“As for the noble Shaykh Ibn Baz and Ibn ‘Uthaymin, by Allah, I love them from the depths of my heart. I know their virtue in many of the affairs, especially Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Aziz bin Baz. I mean, he had a long hand in many of the affairs of Islam. By Allah, the truth is that I love Shaykh ‘Abd al-‘Aziz bin Baz more than I love my own mother and father, and this is what I said to him.” [‘al-As’ilah wal-Ajwibah al-Jihadiyyah’; p. 95]
“So, I presented the fatwa to Shaykh Ibn Baz, and he agreed with it. May Allah bless his life. Shaykh Ibn Baz, Allah has truly given him insight, if He Wills, and Allah Knows best. Allah has benefited Islam and the Muslims through him more than most people, and Allah Knows best. I do not think that anyone on Earth has benefited – other than the rulers, those who possess millions – has benefited the Afghan Jihad like Shaykh Ibn Baz has, yes.” [‘Fi Dhilal Surat at-Tawbah’; p. 171]
So, what might they do??!
What I can’t figure out is how these brothers sleep at night by accusing ‘Azzam of supporting UBL’s actions and agenda after his death, knowing full well that ‘Azzam’s wife and children are firm in saying that he would oppose all of what has occurred.
How convenient that they fail to mention that UBL and others actually stopped giving salaams to ‘Azzam due to him opposing their plans of taking on Muslim countries and it is even suspected that he was murdered by them. It’s well-known that ‘Azzam was against attacking Muslim governments, even those that he opposed, as well as he was against taking conflict to other countries in an offensive manner.
I don’t even know how these brothers can take an honest look at themselves in the mirror sometimes.
There’s absolutely no difference in ‘Azzam’s praise of UBL and Ibn ‘Uthaymeen’s praise of [UBL]. Both are outdated and are not applicable to what occurred later on.
The reality brothers is that while some youth rely whole-heartedly on evidence and knowledge to determine the actions they take in life, the majority of them turn to acts of transgression not because of what so-and-so said or wrote but because of issues in their heart. A lot of young people just simply have problems, and they use these types of things as cover to justify their actions.
This explains why most youth, if they don’t actually do anything, they eventually “burnout” or get bored of that shade of extremism and often choose another form, such as Sufism or Modernism. This is what happened to those that were even at the heads of extreme websites like Tibyan Publications, and recently it was seen in members of Revolution Muslim becoming either Ikhwanis or Ash’aris and Sufis.
The problem is that their heart is diseased with ghuloo in whichever form it shows itself, and the type of extremism they choose to follow is just that which agrees with their other desires. It could be that they become extreme with regards to jihad, takfeer, Sufism, or calling others innovators (*ahem*).
To really think that the root of the problem lies in what so-and-so said or what such-and-such book states.. it really reflects the inability to understand people and/or a poor attempt to attack others without any real basis in the name of defending Islam, the Sunnah and Salafiyyah.
Yes, there are certain people where that is genuinely the case but for those in the West particularly it is truly the minority.
The situation is identical to the state of SP/TROID themselves, as they’re just another shade of extremism. As most of us have realized and experienced first hand, many of these brothers simply don’t truly care about the evidence and proof to hold such-and-such opinion. The majority of the time, Shaykh so-and-so is just used as a smokescreen for personal gain. You would think a people so concerned, supposedly, about innovation and al-jarh wat-ta’deel and so on would have busied themselves in at least laying out the principles of each issue in a very crystal clear manner.
But, that’s not what we see.
Most of these brothers have no understanding of the criteria of what makes a person an innovator, and that’s the way to preferably keep it otherwise the truth concerning these issues will be obvious. They do the same exact thing on Arabic message boards such as Sahab, Albaidha, and others. There’s more concern with political-type tactics of saving face.
For example, prior to being appointed as members to Hay’at Kibaar al-‘Ulamaa’ these message boards attacked Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar ash-Shanqeeti and Shaykh ‘Abdul-Kareem al-Khudhayr.
After appointed, they censored their message boards so that others don’t take notice of their psycho behavior. The head of Albaidha even called al-Khudhayr a Qutbi Takfeeri for coming out harsh against those who opposed Shaykh Ibn Jibreen.
Later on? Not a peep, and the censorship has stepped up even more now that al-Khudhayr was just appointed to al-Lajnah ad-Daa’imah.
Others reading this who don’t know Arabic may even be wondering, who is Shaykh ‘Abdul-Kareem al-Khudhayr to begin with?
If that’s the case, ask yourself isn’t it strange that a scholar so active such as him would not be mentioned to you? Not even a biography? Once again, that’s because if they start translating his lessons then they’ll be exposed.
What gets me is that until now SP/TROID has failed to actually answer many of the doubts and “proofs” that are used by those who promote what they supposedly are warning against in this case. Are they’re bothered that to seriously address these doubts they’ll have to make use of one of the core books the Ministry of Religious Affairs in Saudi Arabia has used to fight extremism, Fitnah at-Tafjeeraat wal-Ightiyaalaat by al-Ma’ribi?
As far as Kamal El-Mekki, when he mentioned at-Tamimi he was speaking about from those people whom he has known personally. If you really want to know what he thinks about Shaykh Ibn Baz, Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, and others then why not just ask him? Regardless, his position on terrorism is known as can be heard here where he defends Tawfique Choudhury’s article on Muslim Matters, Muslim Scholars—West’s Natural Allies in Fighting Scourge of Terrorism. As a result of this, those whom TROID is trying to accuse him of supporting got upset with him.
I wonder though, how will TROID deal with the attendance of Shaykh ‘Aadil al-Kalbaani? How will they spin it?
I figure they can take either one of two paths:
1. Claim that he has been duped and is innocent of the “innovation” of the other speakers, or,
2. Acknowledge that he has stated that their equivalent in Saudi Arabia, who – alhamdulillah – remain few, are the most ignorant of the deen and Salafiyyah. He’s said that they seek to prevent the believers from the way of Allah, all while believing that they’re doing deed. Sound familiar?
He’s also said he’s a Salafi on the madhhab of Shaykh Ibn Baz and Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (and we all know what that means).
He’s made du’a for those in Algeria, which as a result they say means he is with the Khawaarij and Takfeeris (forget the fact that in the exact same du’a he prayed extensively for the Muslim rulers).
Sources? The Arabic flavor of SalafiTalk (Sahab)… like these few posts:
1. http://www.sahab.net/forums/showthread.php?p=703973
2. http://www.sahab.net/forums/showthread.php?p=691373
3. http://www.sahab.net/forums/showthread.php?p=540260
4. http://www.sahab.net/forums/showthread.php?p=286647
But, I digress.
RG’s Edit: Removed the last 4 hyperlinks and added the URLs directly to the text, as it looked like it was a single link, when really, it was four.
Number of issues to expound on.
1. salafitalk continues to throw Sh Muhammad Mukhtar ash-Shinqiti out of the manhaj of the Salaf, as in their manhaj section they put the thread against him on top, where they quoted Sh Rabee’ and Sh an-Najmi in throwing him out. No explained criticism, no nothing, except saying Sh so-and-so said he is a sufi/hizbi!The post is full of “it is said” and “it is heard..” (http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=9&Topic=1673)
Gone are the days for such people, when it was all about what Allah said and what His Messenger said and what the Companions explained!
2. Concerning the popular inspirational translated vdo of Sh Muhammad Mukhtar ash-Shinqiti on youtube “The Goodly Life” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fugf1DcNyc) the Muqallids of salafitalk wasted no time to send out warnings against the Shaykh on yahoo group “Maktabah-alFawaaid” saying: “please know that he has been warned against by our ulemah( Shaykh Rabee and Shaykh Ahmad an-Najmi -rahimhullah) . further details available below. please forward this to your friends and family so that they can be aware of this issue” signed by “emreekeesalafee”
They wasted no time to warn against a Member from the Council of Senior Scholars in the land of tawheed and sunnah, throwing him out of Ahlus Sunnah, and they claim Salafiyyah! Ajeeb!
3. Sh Muhammad al-Maliki from Jeddah was asked only last week about this issue. And really, for the Salafis in the West who do not have direct connection with the Major Scholars, Shaykhana al-Maliki is the way forward on Paltalk. Sh al-Maliki explained in details that he is from the Mashayikh of Ahlus Sunnah, that Shaykhana Abdul Muhsin al-Abbad praises him, and he has not seen any Sufiyyah in him. He also mentioned that the Shaykh’s father was into Sufiyyah and because the Shaykh keeps relations with some of his father’s associates, people assume he’s Sufi, but in reality, he’s not. I uploaded his response here: http://www.mediafire.com/?mvyi232knmm
Interestingly, Shaykhana al-Maliki mentions that some people would accuse him of showing tamyee’ because of this, but he does not please anyone over Allah and he only speaks what he believes to be true!
How is it that these people then get upset when they are called Haddadis? Rather, it is as Shaykh Waseeullaah said, it is from the characteristics of the khawarij! They claim to fight the khawarij and hizbiyyah yet they are the ones falling into the characteristics of the khawarij and people of hizbiyyah! To Allah is our complain.
As for brother Yusuf’s wondering regarding Sh al-Kalbani, then it is easy for them to accuse him of being Ikhwani, Suroori, etc. One of the hizbis of Sh Yahya posted what Sh Yahya said about Sh as-Sudais, so Sh Adil al-Kalbani, Sh Salah al-Budayr are of no barriers to their path of haddadiyyah. Sh Salah al Budayr attended the conference in Mumbai in India, so imagine how they’d react if it was, for instance, Abu Usamah or Abu Saifillah (from Luton) who attended instead.
And then as brother Yusuf mentioned some time back, Dr al-Awdah attended a conference in Islamic University of Madeenah. Imagine if Dr al-Awdah was invited to a Masjid or Markaz in the West, how they’d have reacted. The reality is, these self-righteous “saved sect” are more “saved” than the Scholars in Saudi who cooperate with various groups and individuals upon birr and taqwa, they are more Salafi than the likes of Sh al-Abbad, Sh al-Ghudayan, Sh Waseullah, etc. We seek refuge in Allah from having their attitude.
May Shaykh Muhammad al-Maaliki be rewarded immensely for his justice and fear of Allah.
I don’t mean to turn this into the other QSS thread, but I feel there’s a need to elaborate as this info is pretty much non-existant in English.
His father, Shaykh Muhammad al-Mukhtaar bin Muhammad Sayyid al-Ameen bin Habeebullah bin Ahmad bin Mazeed al-Jakni ash-Shanqeeti (rahimahullah), was one of the teachers of Masjid an-Nabawi and is buried in al-Baqee’ in 1405H.
Allah knows best about him being into Sufism and so on. It reinforces my earlier saying regarding claims. How was he into Sufism? To what extent? What’s the details? He had Sufi friends? Who? What Sufism is with them? Where’s the details?
Alhamdulillah Shaykh Muhammad al-Maaliki stopped at where his knowledge ends on the matter out of his fear of Allah and desire to please Him and not the creation. Sadly, the same cannot be said for others.
If they had to reach for anything, I’d imagine they’d say that from those whom he studied with in Makkah, amongst others, was Muhammad bin ‘Alawi al-Maaliki? What did he teach him, and what was he teaching in general to others in the Haram at that time? All of this is critical information, as Hay’at Kibaar al-‘Ulamaa’ didn’t issue their statement concerning ‘Alawi until 1401H after he started saying many wrong things. Shaykh Muhammad al-Mukhtaar died only 5 years later, so if this is the connection then it’s quite weak.
But, sadly, some chose to live in a historical vaccuum, so there’s no mention that he used to teach at the Haramayn or in Umm al-Qurra and that he was respected by the Saudi Government and that they would consult him.
This also reinforces what I said about the application of certain principles, namely boycotting Ahl al-Bid’ah. Even if some of his friends were Sufis, it doesn’t automatically mean that his son has to boycott them.
When ‘Alawi died in 1425H, he was allowed a huge, lengthy janaazah at the Haram which was even led by Shaykh as-Subayyal and King ‘Abdullah who was prince at the time gave condolances on behalf of the government to his family.
Absolutely none of this means that his teachings were correct, because they weren’t, but what it demonstrates again is that swooping judgments can’t be made just by playing some silly game of connecting the dots.
Whatever the case, the scholar of the time of Shaykh Muhammad al-Mukhtaar that he praised the most was not ‘Alawi or others, it was the mufti of the time, Shaykh Muhammad ibn Ibraahim (rahimahullah), whom he studied with as well and whom appointed him to teach at al-Ma’had al-‘Ilmi in Riyaadh for six years in 1371H. Then he taught at Dar al-Hadeeth in al-Madeenah from 1378-1382H, and then he taught at the Islamic University of al-Madeenah from 1382-1403H.
Shaykh Muhammad had a superb memory. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen (rahimahullah) sat with him and studied under him and praised him, saying that it’s as if he has memorized Al-Bidaayah wan-Nihaayah based on his precision in addressing matters found in this book and quoting it. Others who studied under him said the same regarding Tafseer al-Qurtubi.
He exhausted himself in teaching in al-Masjid an-Nabawi nearly all day long. He explained the Qur’an nearly a dozen times, and explained Saheeh al-Bukhaari and Saheeh Muslim numerous times, as well as Sunan at-Tirmidhi, Sunan Abi Dawood and al-Muwatta’ and other books. His writings were few as a result, but he did begin an explanation on Sunan Ibn Maajah however it was not completed before he passed away that can be read here. He even mentions in the introduction being attacked by others.
What’s mildly humorous is that these brothers will always make it clear that Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar is not the son of the scholar of tafseer Shaykh Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeeti (rahimahullah), even though there was still closeness between the two families. What they fail to mention is that his two sons, Shaykh Muhammad and Shaykh ‘Abdullah, also disagree with them in their extremism of tabdee’ and boycotting.
About Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar, one of the “proofs” for him being “mummayi'” and “Sufi” is that he was asked about studying in Tareem, Yemen and he advised to do so. This is mentioned by Shaykh al-Hajoori here.
Ya’ni just like that.. as far as who it was who asked him the question, when it was asked, what was the exact question, where in Tareem he advised to go.. not a mention. And if that doesn’t depress you enough, keep in mind this loose type of behavior is being done by those who have care and concern for ‘uloom al-hadeeth. Who was the narrator? I mean, really, what happened to al-jarh wat-ta’deel? That easily we accept the saying of another regarding not only a Muslim, but someone from Ahl al-‘Ilm? Where’s the isnaad, and why not just call him up directly to verify?
It’s really quite embarassing as I’ve said numerous of times and to Allah is our complaint.
This ongoing claim of SP/TROID that they’re following the manhaj of the scholars is nothing more than a fable.
Due to their blind following certain scholars, they have totally missed the point on many issues they boast to hold the truth regarding. That’s why the works of al-Ma’ribi and the recent book of al-Halabi and the writings of his students have been so damaging and threatening.
They’ve become so rigid that they simply have no way of explaining a large amount of the speech and actions with regards to tabdee’ and boycotting.
There’s so many examples I can give, such as when Shaykh al-Albaani was told of the harsh speech of Shaykh Muqbil against Shaykh Muhammad Rasheed Ridhaa. Shaykh al-Albaani said may Allah pardon him (Shaykh Muqbi), no doubt that he doesn’t support joining any jamaa’ah but that it’s an issue of ijtihaad and that he thinks that Shaykh Muhammad Rasheed Ridhaa did a great service to Islam and that his membership in the Freemasons was based on a mistaken ijtihaad on his part and not for personal gain.
Yes, that was read correctly, Shaykh al-Albaani defended a scholar’s membership with the Freemasons due to the overwhelming inclination that he didn’t intend bad with that but rather made a mistake. Then he said to consider him deviant is being excessive and that Ridhaa has a right upon many from Ahl as-Sunnah in this time due to spreading the right belief and calling to it through his magazine al-Manaar which had a huge impact on many countries especially non-Arab ones. As a result, he says, he thinks that what Shaykh Muqbil said was extreme and it wasn’t befitting for him to say, and as the saying goes, “You want a friend with no defects in him, and ‘Oud (incense) doesn’t give off its scent without smoke.”
This can be heard on tape 42 of Silsilah al-Hudaa wan-Noor, side B or here.
So where’s SP/TROID from this methodology? Rather we’d see them with their six degrees of seperation game talking about, “Ridhaa -> Freemasons -> Kufr” or some other nonsense.
Shaykh al-Albaani’s way, the way of Ahl as-Sunnah, was that jarh must be based upon justice, even if it’s mufassir.
A lot more can be said about them missing the mark greatly in the very matters they claim they are distinguished in, namely that of the Manhaj of the Salaf.
In the end, all we see is political-type tricks and strategies being carried out. If one of their people errs and says something completely wrong, they either make an excuse or turn a blind eye.
I’ll give one more example, it also demonstrates once again their senseless method of playing connect the dots to explain the religion.
On the lecture Salafee Condemnation of the Fort Hood Shooting and a Disavowal of Anwar al-Awlaki by Abul-Hasan Maalik, he states at the end:
“And I want to make a clarification between two important points quickly. The first point ikhwan is the likes of this ignorant man Jamal al-Deen Zarabozo who made the most ignorant statement that Islam was spread by the sword. That statement that was spread by the mustashriqoon, the Orientalists, that Islam was spread by the sword. And our scholars have refuted the likes of this ignorance. And from them ikhwaan Ibn Qayyim al-Jawziyyah, and from them Shaykh al-‘Uthaymeen…”
First of all, no doubt al-Awlaki has gone astray as of recent if what has been attributed to him is truly from him. However, this haphazard way of refuting him is incorrect as well.
Secondly, where did this brother find in the speech of Ibn al-Qayyim and Ibn ‘Uthaymeen that Islam didn’t spread by the sword? What he goes on to quote isn’t a proof, and it’s not what they intended by those words.
Yes, no doubt the religion of Allah spreads the most through peaceful means and in times of security, and this is one of the many blessings of security, but that doesn’t nullifying it spreading through the sword as well. Again, the middle way which lies between two extremes is the one of balance and truth, and once more we see their habit to only focus on one side of an issue rather than the whole thing in its entirety.
Thirdly, Islam indeed was spread by the sword. Al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah was asked as found in their Fataawa (12/14), “Some enemies of the religion claim that Islam was spread by the sword. What is your response to that?” They replied, “Islam was spread by proof and evidence, in the case of those who listened to the message and responded to it. And it was spread by strength and the sword in the case of those who stubbornly resisted, until they had no choice and had to submit to the new reality. And Allah is the source of strength. May Allah bless our Prophet Muhammad and his family and companions, and grant them peace.” This was signed by Shaykhs ‘Abdul-‘Azeez bin Baaz, ‘Abdul-Razzaq ‘Afeefi and ‘Abdullah bin Ghudayaan.
Others, such as Ibn Taymiyyah, mention in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (28/263), “The purpose is that all religion should be for Allah alone, and that the word of Allah should be supreme. The word of Allah is a comprehensive phrase that refers to His words that are contained in His Book. Hence Allah says, ‘Indeed We have sent Our Messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance (justice) that mankind may keep up justice.’ [al-Hadeed (57):25]
The purpose behind sending the Messengers and revealing the Books was so that mankind might keep up justice with regard to the rights of Allah and the rights of His creation. Then Allah says, ‘And We brought forth iron wherein is mighty power (in matters of war), as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help Him (His religion) and His Messengers in the unseen.’ [al-Hadeed (57):25]
So whoever deviates from the Book is to be brought back with iron (meaning, by force). Hence the soundness of the religion is based on the Qur’an and the Sword. It was narrated that Jaabir ibn ‘Abdullah (radhiyallahu ‘anhu) said, ‘The Messenger of Allah (sallallahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) commanded us to strike with this, meaning the sword, whoever turns away from this, meaning the Qur’an.'” [End quote]
Ibn al-Qayyim uses similar language in his book Al-Furoosiyyah al-Muhammadiyyah.
Of course, spreading Islam by the sword means according to the guidance of the Sharee’ah and does not mean transgressing against innocent people. This is what they fail to grasp, and as a result fall into the opposite extreme of al-Awlaki and deny Jihaad at-Talab.
Then he goes on in the lecture to connect the Ma’had, which was a branch of Al-Imaam Muhammad bin Sa’ud University in Riyadh located in Washington D.C., to extremism and he even brags that they would “warn against” the Ma’had back then. Because, as he basically states, Ma’had -> al-Awlaki -> Ikhwanis -> Qutb. At the time they were warning against it, the director was Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez al-Fawzaan.
In any case, the issue Ahl as-Sunnah has is with one who states that Islam is ONLY spread by the sword, just as is the problem with the one who says it ONLY spread by Da’wah and good manners.
At times it is spread by the sayf and the sinaan, and at other times by the lisaan and bayaan. This is what the scholars have always said.
So while this doesn’t mean we violate the blood of the innocent, it also doesn’t mean we violate the honor of the innocent, in this example being Zarabozo.
This doesn’t mean Zarabozo is infallible, because none of us are free of faults. He’s like any other son of Aadam, but let’s address it truthfully and justly rather than in this manner.
So this is another example of thinking too narrow with little contemplation, and then falsely ruling on another Muslim with one of the worst of rulings. Once again, a failure to be in the middle as we are currently seeing in the latest rant against this Rahma Conference.
The position of Ahl as-Sunnah is one of fairness and justice, and this stems from the fear of Allah and knowing that every matter will require an answer on the Day of Judgment. Just as I shouldn’t be hasty and unjust with regards to the speakers expected to attend, nor will I now say Abul-Hasan Maalik is seeking to destroy Islam by nullifying jihaad at-talab, an integral part of our deen, and referring to speaking of it as “the most ignorant statement” which in effect means spreading the doubts of the Orientalists and Modernists we hear these days. He’s simply mistaken, and how wonderful it would be if he returned to studying and only speaking about what he has firm knowledge of rather than confusing the masses and abusing another Muslim in some game of six degrees of separation.
I feel like I’m repeating many things already mentioned on the QSS post, so I’ll stop here.
I’m sorry for the lengthy comment, but perhaps it will reach the heart of a sincere person truly seeking the truth concerning this fitnah.
Wow. I think I should make you a contributer to my blog. Sign up for a WordPress account so I can add you, haha!
One can only imagine how much it enraged them when Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar was appointed to Hay’at Kibaar al-‘Ulamaa’. They can’t even acknowledge that Shaykh Ibn Baaz (rahimahullah) himself, whom Shaykh Muhammad has said is from the most beloved people to him, once sat in his dars of Zaad al-Mustaqni’ in Makkah. Shaykh Muhammad got off the chair and sat on the floor with tears in his eyes out of respect of Shaykh Ibn Baaz and he directed the questions to him and even asked him about his opinion throughout the dars which can be heard here.
But I forgot to mention, another “weighty evidence” they have against Shaykh Muhammad al-Mukhtaar (rahimahullah) is that Shaykh Hammaad al-Ansaari (rahimahullah) said he was Ash’ari.
Once again.. where’s the proof? No doubt Shaykh Hamaad was a major scholar, but his speech on its own isn’t a proof.
So for those at SP/TROID reading this, it’s a very simple task brothers.
You simply need to say, “Shaykh Hammaad al-Ansaari said he was Ash’ari and the reason is __________________.”
. . . oh, wait, you don’t even know what exactly Shaykh Hammaad said, nor what his proof was in saying such a thing, yet still you claim, “We follow the Qur’an and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Salaf,” and you claim to oppose taqleed?
ربنا لا تؤاخذنا بما فعل السفهاء منا
Shaykh Bakr Abu Zayd (rahimahullah) mentioned his father, Shaykh Muhammad al-Mukhtaar, in his collection on genealogists, طبقات النسابين on page 205, number 521:
محمد المختار:
بن سيد الأمين بن حبيب الله بن أحمد مزيد الجكني الشنقيطي. المتوفى
في 1405/5/29هـ. بالمدينة النبوية. رحمه الله تعالى رحمة واسعة آمين.
وكان رحمه الله تعالى فقيها مؤرخا أخباريا نسابة بارعا في عدة فنون.
For those who’ve benefited from the past few comments, here’s another example of how these brothers refuse to acknowledge their own major mistakes and slips, and instead persist in error:
Until now these brothers promote a tape that basically represents one of the abysmal low point of the so-called Salafi da’wah in the West. A tape that is so embarrassing that you can’t even feel comfortable playing it in the presence of your parents, spouse, children and close relatives. A tape that contains so much filth that after it ends you feel like you need to renew your tahaarah.
This tape is “If Speech is Silver then Silence is Golden, Goldie!” by Abu Uwais (rahimahullah).
It’s on YouTube here and even being sold by SP here.
I’ve rarely come across a title for a lecture that contained so much irony.
The Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) mentioned that from the three things that help a person in their grave, and from this is, “Knowledge from which people continue to benefit.” To those who profess love for Abu Uwais, I’d hate to be the first to inform you, but this tape of his is neither knowledge nor does it contain any benefit. I don’t expect that I have to go into detail about how it’s unacceptable for the imaam of a masjid to become enraged like a lunatic and start calling another Muslim all sorts of names, including a “nigger,” and threatening physical violence against him. . . do I?
It would be more befitting for you brothers to search out ways to make his situation in his grave easier and more pleasant for him.
Yet these brothers have become so blind, they’ll actually try to find a reason to allow Abu Uwais to say what he said, even after clearly hearing that the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) said:
– “A Muslim is the brother of a Muslim. He neither oppresses him nor humiliates him nor looks down upon him. Taqwaa is here, (and while saying so) he pointed towards his chest thrice. It is a serious evil for a Muslim that he should look down upon his brother Muslim. All things of a Muslim are inviolable for his brother in faith; his blood, his wealth and his honor.”
– “The Muslim is one from whose tongue and hand other Muslims are safe. The emigrant is one who abandons those things Allah has prohibited.”
– “Verily your blood and wealth is sacred just like the sanctity of this day, in this month of yours, in this land of yours.”
– “O people who have believed with their tongue but eemaan has not reached their hearts! Do not harm the Muslims, do not revile them and do not reveal their faults. For surely, the one who follows the faults of his Muslim brother, Allah will follow his faults. And if Allah was to follows his faults, then He will expose him even if he was hidden in the deepest part of his house.”
– “During the Mi’raaj, I saw a group of people who were scratching their chests and faces with their copper nails. I asked, ‘Who are these people, O Jibreel?’ He replied, ‘These are the people who ate the flesh of others and trampled upon people’s honor.”
So, what’s their way out of all of these ahadeeth which bring fear to the hearts of the believers?
“Oh, but Abu Usaamah is an innovator and backbiting innovators and being harsh against them is permissible and even encouraged so as to defend the Sunnah.”
Seriously? I really hope that one works out for you on a day which lasts 50,000 years.
As for those who are serious about being a slave of Allah, let alone a “Salafee,” then it’s quite obvious that you haven’t even come with one concrete undeniable piece of evidence to establish that Abu Usaamah has left the fold of Ahl as-Sunnah.
Or worse yet, some of them won’t even be that clever and instead they’ll just try to write all of this off saying, “Here they come to defend their leaders out of their love for people and personalities over the Salafi da’wah.” Of course, the most depressing part is that those who say this line in their poor attempt at psychoanalysis actually think they’re being more intelligent than the first.
So with all of this, these brothers still have the nerve to accuse others of Hizbiyyah.
These brothers in all of their “defense of the Sunnah” for years hardly whispered a letter, let alone a word, in the direction of hardcore innovators unless it’s about takfeer and terrorism and even they do a terrible job at that. Sufis and Modernists for years have been running wild misguiding Muslims and we rarely heard anything from them. And really, while it’s a bad thing and I’m condemning it, perhaps there is good in it as well because if they approached Sufis and Modernists with the same immature strategy empty of knowledge then I’d be afraid that the Sufis and Modernists may come out looking like they’re on the truth to those Muslims who are confused and as a result they’d be aiding their da’wah.
I mentioned before that one of the tribulations that has befallen the Ummah due to the sharee’ah not ruling the lives of many Muslims – and this occurs mostly in the West – is that these guys can get away with this type of slander and backbiting.
They’re all brave hot shots and superstars on the Internet when it comes to speaking about this scholar or that scholar, but let’s see them on their next ‘Umrah trip go around in public talking about Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar for example. Let’s see you do it, O lions of Salafiyyah, and let me know in advanced so I can witness the 80 lashes and your testimony rejected forever.
Like I said, it’s such a joke and honestly their whole behavior for more than a decade now is close to mocking our religion.
jazakum allah khair ya ikhwaan; aby yusuf, rasheed and yusuf..very informative posts and a good clarification of these brothers deviance in the salafi manhaj.
Another example of a half-truth in TROID’s recent rant:
[1] Perhaps my eyesight is weak, but I don’t see any mention in that letter of “callers to revolution and slandering the scholars through their political activism.”
[2] Okay, yes . . . that’s what Shaykh Ibn Baaz (rahimahullah) said about them 1414/4/3 and then on 1414/4/10 – only a week later – Shaykh Ibn Baaz released a letter in response to a question asking if Safar and Salmaan, al-Qarni, al-‘Umar, and at-Tareeri are from the astray groups? Asking if they were not Salafis, but instead Khawaarij? Shaykh Ibn Baaz answered affirming that they were not innovators and not from the Khawaarij, but instead he affirmed that they are from the people of knowledge and that everyone makes mistakes. This letter can be read right here.
Conclusion? Either (a) SP/TROID is ignorant of this letter or (b) they’re lying and deceiving others.
It’s just so immensely idiotic that they continue to insist on associating Safar and Salmaan with this stuff. Safar himself was responsible for getting top people who were fighting against the government to turn themselves in, so much so that they outright declared him a munaafiq for doing so. As far as Salmaan, he just spoke like 3 months ago at the conference addressing terrorism and its causes attended by Nayef and others themselves at the Islamic University of Madeenah as can be seen here.
So, are you telling me that the exact people that were warned against by scholars to the government for promoting extremism, are now being used by the government to stop extremism, and they haven’t acknowledged any past mistakes . . ?! What planet do these people live on? This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, and then to demand others to agree with you or else you will declare them innovators only adds to the absurdity of it all.
I mean, what prevents them from concluding that the Saudi government is Qutbi by saying, “KSA -> Islamic University of Madeenah -> Salmaan -> Qutb” . . ?
And to return to Abul-Hasan Maalik’s braveheart warning against Ma’had in the late 90s, what prevents him from warning against the Islamic University of Madeenah just as he did with the Ma’had?
So at-Tamimi is a deviant because he supported Safar and Salmaan . . ya akhi, Shaykh Ibn Baaz himself defended them more than 15 years ago so what do you want with at-Tamimi?!
The things they accuse people over, and then require others to believe are so ridiculous.
Ok, so they are from “the callers to revolution and slandering the scholars through their political activism” .. and then you go and research it and find that from the list of “the callers to revolution” is someone like Shaykh Naasir al-‘Umar who wrote a whole book against slandering scholars, Luhoom al-‘Ulamaa’ Masmoomah (The Flesh of the Scholars is Poisonous), as well as other books such as At-Tawheed Awwallan (Tawheed First) which was introduced by Shaykh Ibn Jibreen, and his website AlMoslim.net is at the forefront at defending scholars who are constantly under attack by the Modernists and Rawaafidh these days.
Yet with all that, he’s still from “the callers to revolution and slandering the scholars through their political activism.” Once again, a failure to properly address genuine mistakes of others in a mature, mannerly way that is based on justice and fairness and not desires and personal gain.
Again, this doesn’t mean that these people I just mentioned are free of mistakes, but there is a proper way to deal with it and what we’ve had to suffer through in the West all of these years is obviously not it.
These brothers have mutated Salafiyyah into a weird, borderline psychotic collection of dogma. They say they support and respect the scholars, yet if you ask them about the majority of the top students of the major scholars of our times still alive – who themselves are now scholars – they have issues with them. They’ll basically say that all of these scholars had an entourage of students that were Hizbis with ill intentions. Pick from any.. whether you go as early as as-Sa’di, to Muhammad bin Ibraahim, to Muhamamd al-Ameen ash-Shanqeeti, to ‘Abdullah bin Humayyid, to Ibn Baaz, to at-Tuwayjiri, to Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, to al-Albaani, to Ibn Jibreen… to those still alive such as the Mufti, al-Fawzaan, al-Ghudayaan, ar-Raajihi, al-Barraak, and anyone else even from major scholars who may not be as well-known. Rarely will you find them content with the majority of the students of these scholars who are themselves scholars. Even look at the Imaams of the Haramayn, they think that they are Hizbis and deviants. I’ve even heard that some of these brothers prefer not to pray at the Haramayn because Ahl al-Bid’ah are there doing innovation.
Or look at other issues, such as things to do with current affairs. As I mentioned in the What’s the Deal with QSS?! post, I doubt they’ll ever translate what Shaykh Yahyaa al-Hajoori and Shaykh Muhammad al-Imaam said here.
If Abu Ameenah, Abu Usaamah, or anyone else said what these two scholars said there then we’d never hear the end of it. There would be conference after conference after forum post after PDF file after YouTube clip after pamphlet after whatever else warning against them.
But how come when they say it, it’s okay?
What kind of religion is this?
Ya ikhwaan, Allah ‘azza wa jall said:
إنه لقول فصل * وما هو بالهزل
“Verily! This (the Qur’an) is the Word that separates (the truth from falsehood, and commands strict legal laws for mankind to cut the roots of evil). And it is not a thing for amusement.” [86:13-14]
This deen is not for your personal amusement brothers!
And sadly, instead of taking note of this and realizing how much of a contradiction their da’wah has become… and when they can’t answer any of what I’ve just said, they just return to “Shaykh so-and-so said it,” or accuse me of trying to spread doubts in the hearts of the Salafees.
Really? Is that their only response? I truly pray for their own sake they have a better response prepared for Yawm al-Qiyaamah cause I have a feeling that’s just not gonna cut it and Allah knows best.
Rather, what’s clear as the sun is that they are the ones spreading doubts about both Salafiyyah and Islam itself.
These brothers with their promotion of certain myths have caused so much harm to the da’wah, and it’s downright wicked that they refuse to recognize it.
Take for example how they used to always say, “There’s no scholars in the West!” This is hinted at in TROID’s recent rant against the Rahma Conference.
Ya akhi I also don’t agree with calling many of the people who are being called a “shaykh” such a title, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to say there are absolutely no scholars in the West. And what happens is when you promote one extreme, the opposite pops up. So because they promoted the extreme of there being no scholars, a people sprung up who have begun to be referred to as scholars even if they don’t agree with it themselves. Of course most of them aren’t deserving of the title “shaykh” but this type of thing is common practice in non-Arab lands.
Take for example in the Indian subcontinent how someone who memorizes Qur’an is called a haafiz, even though traditionally this term applies to one who memorizes hadeeth when it is used in front of the name of someone such as Haafiz ‘Abdullah. Even they have what they call the “‘Aalim Program” .. become an ‘aalim in 6 years. Yes, it sounds silly when viewed through the correct lens, but this is the result of them being ‘Ajamis and you must be patient in advising them if you really want good.
To start World War 3 between the Ummah over titles and to instigate hatred against one another once again demonstrates their short-sightedness. Really, ask yourself, is that the only way you could think of to try to convince these brothers to not use the title shaykh?
And is your real concern to protect this terminology, or are you just upset that others aren’t calling you a shaykh as well?
Yes we need to correct the general perception in the West of who is a scholar, but behaving like an upset, bitter juvenile on the Internet and ranting about it isn’t a solution.
If you intended good you would cooperate with the brothers upon birr and taqwa and take them by the hand and advise them sincerely – and to Allah alone is our complaint.
Just a little comment about the whole no scholars in the West myth … a few years back, QSSC had a conference in which we invited Shaikh Usamah al-Qusi, and two Somali shaikhs from the UK, Shaikhs Ahmad Dahir Awais and Muhammad Abdul-Dhahir. I remember being told back then, and maybe someone who knows the shaikhs better than I can correct me if I’m mistaken, that Shaikh Ahmad was in Shaikh Ubaid al-Jabiri’s PhD class at Madinah Uni and graduated higher than him. If Shaikh Ubaid is considered from the “major scholars of our time”, then where does that place Shaikh Ahmad Dahir? And at the time we invited him, he was living in Cardiff, UK. Isn’t that in the West?
Salaams,
This is McDonald’s right now, I’m lovin’ it!! But Taco Bell at the same time, think outside the bun!!
The youtube video user won’t allow this message there but here’s the irony. The person “assalafi” writes:
“Furthermore, it is obligatory to adhere to the path of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah in both major and minor issues.”
QUESTION: Are we require to mention the good qualities of those we warn against?
ANSWER: “If you mention their good qualities, then this means that you have called (the people) to follow them. Know, DO NOT MENTION THEIR GOOD QUALITIES…
2 years ago (“Al-Ajwibatul-Mufeedah ‘an As’ilatil-Manaahijil-Jadeedah”, Shaykh Saaleh al-Fawzaan)
So here we have Shaykh al-Allamah Salih al-Fawzan supposedly authorizing this tape and the action of these brothers, hadahumullah. I won’t say anything else but let’s just use Sh Salih al-Fawzan’s speech against them in a similar way:
“Many people today speak about Mashayikh, Ulama and Du’at on the basis of al-Jarh wat ta’deel, so does it have conditions?”
Sh Fawzan: Al-Jarh wat-Tad’eel is in regards to hadeeth science, it is not gheebah and nameemah. backbiting and slandering is haram; it is not from al-jarh wat tad’eel. It is NOT PERMISSIBLE to speak about people, the Scholars, Students of Knowledge, and people of good, and even if there maybe some observations about them, then it is NOT PERMISSIBLE to speak behind their backs, this is haraam, this is gheebah (backbiting) and nameemah (slandering)!
If anything has arisen from them, then inform them of it; otherwise, hold your tongue and all Praise is to Allah. So this is not from al-Jarh wat-Ta’deel, it is from gheebah, yes”
“assalafi”, how does it feel to eat and enjoy the flesh of your brother in the disguise of al-jarh wat-ta’deel?
It’s a real shame that some of the comments being posted won’t be read by a lot of people.
May Allah reward and bless you brothers who’re contributing here; your efforts are much appreciated.
Ya akhi yusu, can you translate what shaykh muhammad al imam and shaykh yahyah al hajoree said? jazakallahukhayran
Basically what’s said that that the war in Afghanistan is undoubtedly a legit struggle and that Allah has used the Afghans to raise the flag of Islam and raise the heads of the Arabs, even if Taliban are Maturidis and UBL is hasty in takfeer we should try to help however possible as Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Tamiyyah cooperated with those who were less than them in deviancy. If one can go then that’s good but not obligatory, however we should pray for them because one Muslim is better than a whole world full of disbelievers.
That’s pretty much what is said in the link and this fatwa is still on Shaykh Yahyaa’s website as it is found in his book الإفتاء على الأسئلة الواردة من دول شتى (page 161).
More is said than that, but only really further elaborating on each point for support.
My point of mentioning this is not to really open up discussion on this particular issue because obviously there’s more detail to it than that.
As far as whether or not I am personally encouraging what they said? No, I’m not, but what I am doing is pointing out the double standards and hypocrisy that exist.
Why can they get away with saying this, and they’re scholars so the burden of responsibility is more, and yet if someone else from du’aat in the West was to say it and wasn’t known to be from a deviant group such as Hizb at-Tahreer or al-Muhaajiroun or a follower of Abu Hamzah or ‘Abdullah Faisal, etc… why is it that he would still be attacked viscously and be made to feel like that isn’t a “Salafee position” to take on the issue?
The problem isn’t with regards to this issue or that issue, it’s that these brothers simply cannot embrace that a certain level of differing is permissible in our religion. Instead, they’ve somehow codified some imaginary collection of “Salafee stances” that you must take on issues, and if you don’t then you have left Salafiyyah.
Sure, perhaps if these were with regards to fundamentals of the religion that you cannot oppose without exiting Ahl as-Sunnah, but with these guys its with regards to issues like Jami’iyaat. Yes, charity organizations. Some how, some way, if you believe in an organized charity organization you have left Salafiyyah. Then you tell the brother, “But brother, Shaykh al-Albaani, Shaykh Ibn Baaz, Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen.. they all allow of such a thing..” They’ll just lose control and say, “Shaykh so-and-so said it’s an innovation. Do you not follow the advice of the ‘ulamaa?” Ya miskeen, we follow their advice indeed, Shaykh Ibn Baaz and Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen themselves have charity organizations in their name.
Or they’ll consider you not a Salafee if you participate with an Islamic TV channel as they try to bind you to believe that video is haraam. Or, they say video is permissible, but there’s no Salafee channels. Then you tell them, “Akhi, the Mufti Shaykh ‘Abdul-‘Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh himself comes on several of the channels and has entire hour long programs where he answers questions that are asked over the phone,” and you get an identical answer as the previous one.
. . . WaAllahul-musta’aan.
Assalamu alaykum’wa rahamtullahi wa barakatahu,
“I don’t mean to turn this into the other QSS thread…” …To Late …JazakumAllahukhair for your posts (Abu Yusuf & Yusuf)
This is an old article I came across Today…http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/ibaanah/vol3_s.htm Some of those involved in dawah should pay attention to:
The Prophet sallallâhu ’alayhi wa sallam said: “Whoever accuses a Believer of something that is not true, then Allâh will make him dwell in the pus flowing from the inhabitants of the Fire, and he will not leave until he retracts from what he has said.” [Sahîh: Related by Ahmad (no.5385) and others, from Ibn ’Umar radiallâhu ’anhu. It was authenticated by al-Albânî in as-Sahîhah (no.438).]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCTJk2oV9RQ This is one of the many recordings of Shaikh WasiuAllah Al-Abbas mentions the errors of some and the correct way of advising etc. But obviously according to some the Shaikh, May Allah’aza’wa’jal Bless him, “Doesn’t know the reality etc.”
Sorry that was the link for the article:
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/ibaanah/vol3_s.htm
The point of the youtube link is not cause divisions or to create fitnah etc. But to put things in their proper prespective with Wisdom as the Shaikh does al-hamdulilah.
“But see, Shaykh Waseeullah doesn’t know the reality.”
It’s like what they say about Shaykh ‘Abdul-Muhsin al-‘Abbaad.. I mean, they’ll say he’s the Imaam of al-Madeenah in our times, yet he doesn’t know the reality around him. So let me get this straight, he’s one of the greatest scholars of hadeeth in our times and knows intricate details about the lives of countless narrators of hadeeth that lived 1,000+ years ago and what occurred with them, but he doesn’t know the reality of people in his own country . . ?
Brothers, honestly, respect the intellects of the Ummah of Muhammad (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam).
Jazakallahu khayran Ibn_Ahmed for the link.
No doubt, all of this is out of advice and not to create division or fitnah. I don’t think any of us enjoys writing what we’re writing, I mean I personally don’t take pleasure in it, but really I’ve noticed if you’re not blunt and direct with these brothers they simply don’t take you serious. They mistake kindness a sign of weakness.
“Shaykh Waseeullah/Abdul Muhsin al-Abbad/Abdul Aziz Aal ash-Shaykh/etc doesn’t know the reality.”
The only reason they cannot accuse them of being Ikhwanis/Mumayyis is because they are the Shaykhs of the Shaykhs, like teachers of the other Shaykhs they quote. Even the simplest Muqallid of salafitalk would flee from them if they were to openly say they are Mumayyi/Ikhwani. But looking at it, according to the standards set by salafitalk admin, Mufti Abdul Aziz from the kibar of the Ikhwanis and so is al-Abbad and Waseullah.
But no, they’d pick on the smaller in status such as Sh al-Halabi because then they can then get some Scholars to speak against them or refute some of their errors, and you just translate them into nice pdfs and youtube files. Their smokescreen is wAllah disgusting.
How many of the articles of ahlul bid’ah such as Dr Tahir al-Qadri have they refuted with knowledge?! How many of Islamophobes (Robert Spencer,Daniel Pipes,etc) have they refuted with knowledge? How many of articles of numerous books and tapes by the Sufis and modernists and other than them from all around the world have they refuted with knowledge? I am still hard pressed to find any decent knowledge-based refutation on the deceptions pulled by GF Haddad and his crew that are OPENLY being distributed on the internet and in books? Have they freed Islam and Salafiyyah from what these people have attributed it with?!
No, their concern is with the weaker ones amongst Salafis, the likes of Abu Usamah who was made takfeer upon by Abdullah Faysal and Abu Uways rahimahullah pretty much humiliated him on a personal level in that tape that they distribute. And then they come up with the saying of the Salaf “There is no gheebah on Ahlul Ahwaa”, “How evil is Ahlul Ahwa, we do not give Salams to them!”
Allahul musta’an. Open your eyes and defend Islam and Salafiyyah from volumes of books authored by Islamophobic kuffar, Sufis, Modernists, Takfiris and apply the texts of the Salaf in their proper place. Refute Nation of Islam, the Qadiyanis and their books and then apply the texts of the Salaf with them, as the Salaf used those statements against sects such as Jahmiyyah, Qadariyyah, Rawafidh, Mu’tazilah. They didnt use it against every brother you people consider to be a Hizbi/Mumayyi/Ikhwani!!!!
Question for SP/TROID, if there’s any takers…
Why did Shaykh Saalih Aal ash-Shaykh visit the Ibn Jebreen Foundation around 3 months ago as can be seen here?
And why did the governor of Riyadh, Prince Salman, visit as well and then say that Shaykh Ibn Jibreen left behind a massive inheritance of knowledge that everyone must benefit from, as can be read here?
Please remind me, why are they visiting the organization set up for someone whom you’ve said is, “a man who has made it his goal to defend the people of innovation at all costs,” “having no shame or fear of Allaah,” “perennial defender of Innovators and betrayer of the Salafee ‘aqeedah,” “it was not expected that he would plummet to such a shamefully low level,” “has outdone himself in the latest and most shameless entry in his long line of disgraceful and self-degrading fataawa” as has been stated on SalafiTalk.net without any open clarification of repentance and acknowledgement of error?
I hope you brothers don’t think you can censor what has been down on your record by the angels just as you can censor your message board, because if so then you’re in for a huge surprise.
And also, how does this work exactly with your connect the dots manhaj?
KSA -> Prince Salman -> Ibn Jibreen -> Qutb . . ?
In this case, the head of religious affairs Shaykh Saalih Aal ash-Shaykh is also connected.
Honestly, the speakers at the Rahma Conference should consider it an honor to have their flesh eaten by the same people who took it upon themselves to feast on the flesh of giants such as Shaykh Ibn Jibreen and others.
You just reminded me of the comment I posted about Shaikh Muhammad bin Abdil-Wahhab al-Wasabi’s answer regarding “Hakimiyyah” to my post on the mujmal-mufassal issue. There’s no doubt in my mind that if someone like Abu Usamah or anyone else these guys have “outted” said what Shaikh al-Wasabi said, they’d jump up and down in celebration yelling, “See?!?! I told you he was an innovator and a deviant!! Look, he’s a Qutbi/Sururi/Sahwi!” Or something similar to that. Just a reminder for those who didn’t see it the first time, Shaikh al-Wasabi, author of al-Qawl al-Mufid fi Adillah at-Tawhid and student of the late Shaikh Muqbil bin Hadi al-Wadi’i, said,
Translation:
I think we went through several “Salafee stances” that must be held (or else!) in the What’s the Deal with QSS?! post, such as:
– A Salafee doesn’t boycott the goods of non-Muslim countries to help his brothers and sisters, even though as-Sa’adi, Ibn ‘Uthaymeen, al-Albaani, al-Luhaydaan, ar-Raajihi, and others strongly supported such an action.
– A Salafee wouldn’t praise Ahmad Yaseen and his struggle, even though the Mufti and al-Luhaydaan did.
– A Salafee wouldn’t refer to those who have died as martyrs, even though the Mufti did and it was also allowed by Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Baaz, ‘Abdur-Razzaaq ‘Afeefi, Ibn Qu’ood, al-Ghudayaan, and others.
Keep in mind, these are some of their most powerful evidences against Jam’iyyah Ihyaa’ at-Turath, so . . .
And there’s many other issues, mostly all related to issues which have appeared in our times for one reason or another, and they always try to form only one official, acceptable Salafee stance concerning. These issues range from something that impacts people on a large scale voting in non-Muslim countries to an issue such as wearing your shoes in the masjid.
I remember in one masjid in particular, and it probably occurred in dozens of “Salafee masjids” throughout the West, these guys would come in the masjid from outside, check their shoes for any apparent filth, and then proceed to walk on the carpet and pray in their shoes.
Does anyone have any idea where this phenomena started? I’m not sure myself, but I’m inclined to think some enthusiastic brothers read “The Legality of Performing the Prayer in Shoes” by Shaykh Muqbil (rahimahullah) and then they just took off from there full speed ahead.
If you opposed these brothers in taking off your shoes because you didn’t agree with them wearing their shoes on the carpet, some of them would treat you as if you’re questioning Islam itself. Because, remember, wearing the shoes in the prayer is from the Sunnah! Yes it is, but is it really 100% black-and-white like that? I always felt bad for the person who would have to clean those carpets.
So okay, it’s from the Sunnah to wear your shoes even in the masjid if they are clean, but what is better in the case of carpeted masjids?
Al-Lajnah ad-Daa’imah is asked in their Fataawa (6/213, 214), “There is a dispute about the ruling on entering the mosque in shoes and praying in shoes. What is the Islamic ruling on that?” They answer by first mentioning the shar’i evidences for wearing shoes in the prayer, and the conclude with:
“But now that masjids are usually furnished with fine carpets, the one who enters the mosque should take off his shoes and be careful to keep the carpet clean and not annoy other worshippers because of dirt that may get onto the carpet from the soles of his shoes, even if it is taahir (pure).”
And also Shaykh Ibn Baaz (rahimahullah) was asked similarly and gave the proofs for wearing the shoes in the prayer and then said, “If the masjid is furnished with carpets, it is better to take the shoes off, so as to avoid making the carpets dirty or putting other Muslims off the idea of prostrating on it.”
Shaykh al-Albaani (rahimahullah) likewise said, “I have advised our Salafi brothers not to be so strict concerning this issue (praying in shoes in the masjids) because there is a difference between the mosques nowadays which are furnished with fine carpets, and al-Masjid an-Nabawi in the early days of Islam. I gave them the analogy of another example from the Sunnah, where in another story the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam) ordered the one who needed to spit whilst praying to spit to his left or beneath his feet. This was acceptable because the floor in the masjid where the person had to spit was made of sand or pebbles. But nowadays the prayer-hall of the masjid is furnished with carpets, so do they say that it is permissible to spit on the carpets?! Both cases are the same.”
But sadly, even when it comes to a fiqh issue such as this, these brothers won’t acknowledged that they were the source of causing so much trouble over it, so what about anything else?
Sadly, I can go on and on and give example after example, but from past experience I fear that those who despise and hate SP/TROID for personal reasons may use this information to further their own personal agenda. However, at the same time, it must be addressed and insincere people will use whatever to further their own personal objectives. That can’t be allowed to stop us from addressing this fitnah directly head on to make it clear for those who sincerely want to know, especially as SP/TROID themselves continue to fuel the fire with this recent rant against the Rahma Conference.
Imagine if Abu Usaamah or anyone else came on TV and said what is said here at around 1:20. Watch Dawud Adib’s facial expression after he gives the example. Even if that wasn’t said, they would condemn him and anyone else for simply sitting with these two, uncovered non-Muslim ladies. What would we hear from them?
Now myself… I make excuses for him and Dawud and I oppose anyone who would try to spread this to tarnish these brothers. My message to those who would do that and try to harm them is consistent with everything else I’ve typed and that is be truthful and fear Allah. In fact, I ask Allah on behalf of these brothers to defend them from those who would seek to do such a thing.
But again, this program was probably witnessed by thousands of people who saw that and continue to see it on YouTube and so these brothers would use a mistake such as this if it was committed by someone else and lose control of themselves and run with it, “warning against them” left and right with their “halal backbiting” get-togethers.
But why is it that, once again, when it’s one of their people then now they, supposedly, want to exercise “wisdom” in the da’wah and “not confuse the people.”
Can’t they see that their obvious contradictions are what really harms the da’wah and confuses people?
I mean even back to Abu Uwais calling Abu Usaamah a nigger… when ‘Abdullah Faisal released his tape against Abu Usaamah, “The Devil’s Deception of the 21st Century House Niggers,” people were shocked enough from the title let alone what he actually says on the tape. Yet the same people who were against calling Abu Usaamah a nigger back then, call him one now?
These brothers just seem to be devoid of any justice.
I mean, for example, they also keep taking shots at Yasir Qadhi. You know, I heavily disagree with a lot of what Yasir Qadhi is doing in these recent years but if you’re going to oppose him on something let’s have it be knowledge-based and keep it to that, okay? These guys had the nerve to say Qadhi wrote his book “Riyaa: Hidden Shirk” because he himself had a personal problem with riyaa. They say, and I quote from a SalafiTalk post:
“6. He wrote his book on riyaa as an introspection excercise, since he had a problem with it, and many brothers noticed his “big head”. So its strange to see that al-Hidayah are causing more fitnah for his man by propping him up, making him subject to more internal problems.”
Ya akhi, what does that mean, you yourself don’t have a problem with riyaa? Maa shaa’ Allah tabaarakallah!
Subhanallah.. just look at how bankrupt these guys are both spiritually and mentally.
By Allah, you brothers reading this who haven’t been tested with what Allah has tested them with, make sure you express gratitude and thankfulness to Him for protecting you.
For all that these guys talk about “Salafiyyah” and being “Salafees,” it’s as is if they have absolutely no clue who the Salaf were nor what they said or how they lived.
Yasir Qadhi had a problem with riyaa?
Sahl bin ‘Abdullah (rahimahullah) that he said: “There is nothing which is tougher upon the soul than (achieving) ikhlaas. How many times have I tried to remove riyaa’ from my heart except that it sprouted in a different colour”.
And there’s literally dozens of other sayings of the Salaf regarding the difficulty of being sincere and avoiding riyaa. So what exactly is your point is saying that Qadhi had a problem with it? Ya akhi, you don’t have a problem with it either? If you’re not finding that Shaytaan is whispering to you to be insincere in your speech and actions, chances are that you have a much, much larger problem. Perhaps this is the fruit of you “boycotting the books of the innovators,” in this case being Qadhi’s book on riyaa and so now you remain completely clueless about the issue. No?
And then with all of this, these guys allow this garbage and promote it on their websites “in defense of the Sunnah and Salafiyyah” and all these other slogans and taglines.
By Allah, I don’t understand how someone can claim to be serious in their adherence to Islam, let alone “Salafiyyah,” and then remotely do any of what I’ve mentioned on this blog.. really, please someone shed some light on it.
Rather, most likely they won’t address any of these issues and I’ve come to accept that because as I said above I’m inclined to think – based on their speech and action, and not delving into their hearts – that they really could care less or otherwise we wouldn’t be in this condition. I leave their affair to Allah and ask Him to guide them.
Instead, I’ve taken time to write this for those that are concerned about these issues and are striving to escape the confusion and fitnah that’s constantly being spread by these brothers – and Allah knows best.
Abu Usamah sent me this video today concerning some words he had about the Rahma conference while speaking to his class in Green Lane Mosque.
http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/6977145
Masha-Allah.. a lot of points have been addressed by Akh Yusuf.. barakallahu feek..
Akh Rasheed, is it just me of Abu Usamah looks different in that video as compared to his video with Shaykh Adil Kalbani?
I haven’t seen his video with Shaikh Adil al-Kalbani, so I couldn’t tell you. But he looks like the same Abu Usamah I’ve always known … maybe a bit chubbier (j/k, Abu Usamah), but same ol’, same ol’ if you ask me.
as salamu aleykum
as you know, troid is also attacking sheikh bashiir shiile, imam of KBW..and their proof is a refutaion by some student from damaaj against sheikh bashiir’s 2 audio tapes.
I found the link in rm format, but i want to transfer to mp3, any of the brothers here have a converter, can you please convert the file for me.
jazakum allah khair, here are the links
http://www.somalisunah.net/daar.php?codka=mux_sj&file=difaca01.ram
http://www.somalisunah.net/daar.php?codka=mux_sj&file=difaaca02.ram
i hope they work
As salaamu alaikum,
You know we live in a time where controversy and sensationalism sells! If these brothers didn’t keep their people afraid of everyone else, then what would happen is that people would really start to exercise some natural cognitive capabilities that Allaah has given them! Then they would start to see them for who they really are, and then they would start to notice that besides having the ‘impression’ of a great network, and ‘connection with the ‘ulamaa’, then they will see that they are just a bunch of fame seekers who have to implement what I term a ‘boogey man’ da’wah to stay relevant! You know,keep people afraid about something that doesn’t exist.
Because in reality, they don’t have a great network, nor do they have any real connection with any ‘ulamaa, because most of them never sat with anybody, and if they did, it wasn’t for any significant amount of time. Many of them have only done what anyone who has a zeal can do, learn the Arabic language, and memorize a little more than the average person. And when you really see how the knowledge is learned, by sitting with scholars, then you see that what they have done is just the entry level; these dudes have people thinking that they are really tullabul ‘ilm!
But, just like the boogey man, anyone who is smart enough will eventually grow out of it, and that is the people who move on from that foolishness. However, some people will (and still are) afraid of the dark! They develop in their audience what is called psychophobia, or fear of the mind. Yeah, these psychology course are working for me!! lol
وكذلك جعلنا لكل نبيّ عدوّا شياطين الإنس والجن يوحي بعضهم إلى بعض زخرف القول غرورا ولو شاء ربك ما فعلوه فذرهم وما يفترون
“And so We have appointed for every Prophet enemies – Shayatin (devils) among mankind and jinns, inspiring one another with adorned speech as a delusion (or by way of deception). If your Lord had so willed, they would not have done it, so leave them alone with their fabrications.” [6:112]
May Allah protect Shaykh Bashir from the shayatin of men and jinn, grant him a lengthy life in His obedience, and allow us to benefit from his knowledge. Subhanallah, it’s enough evil that they’re trying to busy this man and distract him away from teaching the people our religion.
Abul Qayyim – You reminded me of a saying of Plato of all people, “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”
And another saying of his relevant to the predicament of these brothers is, “Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”
“Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something.”
So true!
tuwaylib – I wasn’t able to convert it, but I found it as mp3s at Somalislam.com Somalism – part 1 and part 2.
jazak allah khair akhi yusuf
i also went over the response made by some person in yemen, and he accused sh bashir of having khawarij ideology and revolting against the ruler, and sh bashir did actually hint to that in the beginning of the second audio. whats your take on that
What did he say exactly?
Do you mean the statement, “Revolting against the Muslim ruler is something which is widespread and has precedence from the Salaf?”
Is such a statement really sufficient to say he supports the ideology of the Khawaarij?
In order to understand what he intended by that statement, we should look to his collective statements on the issue not just take one clip from a lecture. And also, why not just ask him directly in a respectful manner what he meant by it?
And another point, does rebelling and revolting against the Muslim ruler in and of itself make a person from the Khawaarij? What is it that distinguishes the Khawaarij from the Bughaat?
As I said earlier, no ta’seel, no tafseel.. just a chop suey collection of quotes from the Salaf and voilà! – and to Allah alone is our complaint.
One of the things that stands out on this refutation against Shaykh Basheer is how they keep making a point to say it’s from one of the senior Somali students in Dammaaj.
These brothers enjoy promoting this false image of Dammaaj as if there are no real problems going on there and between them and other students of Shaykh Muqbil, and I’m not talking about al-Ma’ribi but instead al-Wasaabi, al-Imaam, al-‘Adani, and others.
Maybe they’ll say they’re trying to prevent fitnah in the West.. as if they’ve ever weighed the benefits and harms of such a thing in the past. Why the special treatment for Dammaaj?
Just last Saturday, Shaykh ‘Ubayd again called Shaykh Yahyaa al-Hajoori an idiot (safeeh) who is not from the people of knowledge, and he once again advised against going to Dammaaj for studies.
This can be heard here at Sahab.
At around 23 minutes, Shaykh ‘Ubayd is asked about several people. The first is Shaykh Muhammad Sa’eed Raslaan, whom he said he doesn’t know so he doesn’t make any judgment concerning him.
Then he was asked about Shaykh ‘Ali Hasan al-Halabi, and he said I spoke about him around 2 weeks ago so refer to it. This was posted in Arabic on SalafiTalk, and is similar to what was said here.
Then, Shaykh ‘Ubayd is asked about the differing that has occurred in Yemen (between Dammaaj and everyone else) and what position we should take.
He basically says you guys give da’wah and as far as (Shaykh Yahyaa) al-Hajoori, then his situation has been clarified and the summary is that he’s an idiot and that he wasn’t raised in knowledge and he has obscene, vulgar speech. He said he has strange mistakes in ‘aqeedah such as saying that the doubt of irjaa’ started with the Sahabaah and if he was from the people of knowledge he wouldn’t say something like this. He also says that Ahl as-Sunnah are the closest to the truth, and failed to narrated from Ibn Taymiyyah properly rather he narrated Ibn Taymiyyah quoting erroneous opinions and attributed to him, and our position is that Ahl as-Sunnah are the people of the truth not just the closest. And he concludes, saying that I don’t advise going to Dammaaj unless al-Hajoori is absent and replaced by someone who deserves to inherit the chair of Shaykh Muqbil.. an intelligent person who is cautious and fearful of Allah, and that isn’t the case right now as is well-known.
After that is another interesting saying (around 27:20), he’s asked about another student of Shaykh al-Albaani and he says he doesn’t know him but that whether or not he isn’t a student isn’t what we measure to determine if he’s correct, but rather what matters is his manhaj.
This is what I’ve been trying to stress, that it doesn’t matter if al-Halabi is or isn’t doesn’t prove whether what he is saying in Manhaj as-Salaf as-Saalih is correct or not.
These brothers import so many irrelevant disputes between people of knowledge to the West, and then when it comes to clarifying the current reality of either the Islamic University of Madeenah or Dammaaj… silence. Which situation is more urgent to their followers?
Maybe then “senior students in Dammaaj” won’t mean much to their followers then?
by the way brother rasheed, what do you think about Yasir qadhi?
P.S. anyone is free to answer if they have any info, cause it is good to know the proper salafi position with regards to people ;)lol
Not that any of what I’m going to say matters much, but if you’re asking what I think of the brother personally, I’m not a big fan of his (largely due to personal reasons). I must say though, that I’ve benefitted from some of his writings (e.g., his primer on Qur’anic sciences, and some of the essays he’s written for MuslimMatters).
Religiously, although we definetly differ on some issues (e.g., his positions regarding faith, disbelief, irja’ and those controversial issues), many of these opinions he expresses that we differ in have precedents with today’s scholars, and I consider the brother to be salafi. Close and dear friends of mine have attended some of his alMaghrib seminars and have benefited from them, so you probably won’t find me warning or cautioning against them. In fact, you’ll probably find me encouraging those I feel need the benefit to go and attend his lessons and talks.
What’s been circulated regarding Yasir Qadhi’s views on those specific issues (i.e., faith, disbelief, irja’, etc.) is that he is in line with what Shaikhs Salman al-‘Awdah and Safar al-Hawali (as well as others) have expressed. My views regarding those issues are in line with Shaikh al-Albani’s, his students’ (like the shaikhs associated with the al-Albani Centre and others), and others (like Shaikh Ahmad Salih az-Zahrani). Some of the scholars who hold these views (I hold) to be wrong also believe that these views are those of the Murji’ah, which include Shaikhs Salman and Safar, as well as some of the scholars in the Permanent Committee.
I don’t wish to get into too many details regarding it, as it’s an old debate that usually gets pretty heated. If you’re interested, I’ve translated a number of things pertaining to these issues and have posted them here on my blog; particular articles of interest would be those I translated from Shaikh Ahmad az-Zahrani, whose two books on the subject (Sharh Alfadh as-Salaf and Tark al-Amal adh-Dhahir) are among the best I’ve read.
Na’am, i strongly agree with Akh Rasheed with regards to Yasir Qadhi, whose talks and seminars are beneficial.
Quote:
“Religiously, although we definetly differ on some issues (e.g., his positions regarding faith, disbelief, irja’ and those controversial issues), many of these opinions e expresses that we differ in have precedents with today’s scholars,”
Akh Rasheed, can you elaborate on the above? What are those issues and what are their precedence?
Just so that we (esp me) are clear about them.
Shukran wa barakallahu feek.
I see. The links for those articles would be sufficient.
Alternatively, you can email me personally.[That way, it wouldn’t turn into a debate. ;)]
Haha, I just noticed that someone didn’t like Yusuf’s comment on the games of 6° of separation that the TROID and SP crew love to play and gave it a thumbs down.
Btw, if anyone was wondering why they haven’t seen or heard from me in a couple days, it’s because I just got back from a camping trip … just getting caught up with things now.
Farhan, shoot me an email with what you want to know about, and I’ll see if I can explain things if I can.
Here is another example of an “official Salafee stance” that must be taken or else you’re “off the manhaj” … the issue of making a “differentiation between the Firqatun-Naajiyyah (The Saved Sect) and Taa’ifatul Mansoorah (The Victorious Group),” which sajid_chauhan_81 refers to as “methodological misguidance.”
A few points:
1. Not to start a mini-Arabic class, but it is al-Firqah an-Naajiyah and at-Taaif’at al-Mansoorah.
2. Let’s take a look at what other scholars have said about this “methodological misguidance” and see what’s been left out on SalafiTalk.
a. Shaykh Ibn ‘Uthaymeen – He was asked on Liqaa’ al-Baab al-Maftooh (Tape no. 54) after 35 minutes whether this issue was from the fundamentals of the religion by which we befriend and become hostile toward others over, and whether or not if one who seperates between the two is an innovator. He quoted Ibn Taymiyyah saying that the two are the same, and the said that this is not from the major issues upon which we befriend and hate others upon. If two people disagree about it, then the two should research together in a calm manner intending to arrive at the truth. Then each of them ends up with what they view to be correct and their affair is with Allah, as He will judge them according to their intention. We don’t hold others to our views and consider them mistaken and us infallible, as this is a dangerous way, because no one’s saying is acceptable in all cases except the Prophet (sallallahu ‘alayhi wasallam). As far as differing between the two groups, then he doesn’t see it to be from the issues which reach the level of innovation. Rather each person should debate their view in a calm manner and the truth will become clear if both sides use the manners of differing and seek the truth.
b. Shaykh Ibn Jibreen – He was asked specifically about al-‘Awdah’s distinction between the two and he said it’s possible for one to view this as each group has specific descriptions, and then further elaborated on the issue as can be read and heard here.
c. Shaykh al-Albaani – He mentions this opinion of al-‘Awdah in As-Silsilah as-Saheehah (1/932) and says it isn’t far from being correct and then expounds on the issue and concludes saying that he doesn’t see a huge benefit in discussing this back and forth, out of desiring good for the da’wah and maintaining unity.
d. Shaykh Muqbil – He states in Al-Ajwibah as-Sadeedah fi Fataawaa al-‘Aqeedah (1/131) that at-Taa’ifah al-Mansoorah is higher than al-Firqah an-Naajiyah since at-Taa’ifah al-Mansoorah will fight and be apparent on the truth without anyone harming them. He says that he knows many of our brothers are not content with this, but he says that there isn’t a verse from the Qur’an or hadeeth to specify a certain stance.
I am short on time and that is why I haven’t translated all of these statements verbatim, but why weren’t these quotes concerning this specific issue mentioned when proving this “methodological misguidance” of al-‘Awdah?
All we see instead is:
So the proof is simply Shaykh Rabee’ wrote a book concluding that the two are exactly the same and to say otherwise is a condemned innovation?
When will these brothers truly believe that every scholar has mistakes? The exact same book that was written in refutation of al-‘Awdah, Ahl al-Hadeeth Hum at-Taa’ifah al-Mansoorah wal-Firqat an-Naajiyah, contains expressions regarding the Sahaabah that should not be used. Will they recognize this?
And this isn’t a defense of al-‘Awdah in particular, but as I’ve said repeatedly, if we need to refute something to this degree then it should at least first of all be something that has reached the level of deserving that, meaning it isn’t an acceptable point of differing, and it should be accurately attributed to a person, and there should be a clear benefit to us in doing so to begin with and not just to give victory to our shaykh or organization.
These brothers have gone wild on others without even verifying or confirming the intention behind certain sayings, and Shaykh Basheer and the Khawaarij is an example.
Imagine if Shaykh Basheer said that the ‘aqeedah of the Khawaarij was Salafi… that the Khawaarij had a Salafi ‘aqeedah. What types of refutations would fly out from TROID? But this very phrase was said by Shaykh Rabee’ on multiple occasions and even Shaykh Ibn Baaz was asked about it as can be read here.
The excuse made for Shaykh Rabee’ is that he was saying in terms of their belief in Allah’s names and attributes, and not having grave worship and so on they were Salafi, but that they went astray in terms of politics and Haakimiyyah.
But without going off into what he meant, the point is what would happen if someone else besides him said it, especially if they already have a beef with them?
And yet another example of what Shaikh of Islam relates: “’Abdur-Rahman bin Mahdî and others said [that] the people of knowledge write what is for them and what is against them, while the people of desires do not write except what is for them.”
Perhaps with Chauhan, though, he’ll have the excuse of ignorance on his side.
As brother Yusuf asked, “Maybe they’ll say they’re trying to prevent fitnah in the West.. as if they’ve ever weighed the benefits and harms of such a thing in the past. Why the special treatment for Dammaaj?”
Let me post the reply on behalf of salafitalk-centred Salafees who have responded similarly elsewhere.
1. The special treatment for Dammaj is because of the naseehah of Shaykh Rabee’ as seen here:
http://aloloom.net/vb/showthread.php?t=1547
(What does Sheikh Rabee say about studying in Dammaj?)
In the Shaykh’s words as quoted by them, “warning from Dammaaj is a mistake, do not beleive those who warn from Dammaaj, do not beleive them”.
2. Salafees are adhering to the advice of Shaykh Abdullah Adh Dhamaari concerning the fitna in Yemen
http://aa.trinimuslims.com/showthread.php?t=7129
Any thoughts anyone? (please try maintain justness in your comments)
Why didn’t they follow the advice of the scholars with regards to the conflict between Shaykh Rabee’ and Shaykh Abul-Hasan – in particular that of Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan and Shaykh ‘Abdul-Muhsin al-‘Abbaad?
Which person of knowledge advised them to import that to the West?
What is it that motivates the “Salafees” to follow the advice of one scholar, and leave the advice of another?
Even in this case, they’ll say, “We’re following the advice of the scholars.” Okay, which scholars?
All of the scholars are giving the same advice?
Or even the majority?
Because that’s what a saying such as this implies, that all or at least the majority of the scholars of Ahl as-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah today are advising to study in Dammaaj and not caution people against certain extremism present there.
Is that really the case? Honestly? Perhaps if you think that “the scholars” are only a dozen or so people… perhaps.
My point is you have brothers who follow SP blindly who’re considering leaving their homes and families to go to Dammaaj, for example, so wouldn’t it be ideal to make it clear to the people what’s the situation there instead of feeding them an outdated vision of the place? Otherwise you’re inviting a person to drown in an ocean of confusion and waste their time and energy on the ongoing conflicts there.
I mean, how do these brothers even practically apply this advice of Shaykh Rabee’? He says, “and by Allah no one warns from it except the one who wants to divert the people from the path of Allah” – okay, so Shaykh ‘Ubayd wants to divert the people from the path of Allah??
I think one word describes the behaviour of the exaggerators, both scholars and laymen alike: pretentious.
May Allah rectify our affairs and guide us to what pleases Him.
salmaualikum,
what you are tired of is called madkhalism, just leave this sect of backbiting and slandering and look at the true people who follow the salaf, the people of jihad.
May Allah guide us to what he loves and is pleased with.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Mohammad.
I’m not a Madkhali, nor do I ascribe to what’s been dubbed “Madkhalism”, so I’m not exactly sure what you’re telling me or the other commenters here to leave. As for these people of jihad you speak of, who’re they?
Akhee Rasheed, i dont’ think brother Chauhan is 100% an evil person, so it doesnt sounds good from a well-learned student like you to humiliate him in such a vile manner!
As for the athaar you provided, you must be fair to yourselef bro. Are you from those who write what is for them and what is against them??? You continually attack the Salafiyyen and accuse them with portraying only one side of the reality, but why dont you try to portray the other side of the fitnah of al-Maghrawi, al-Ma’ribi and lastly the fitnah of al-Halabi???
I remember a brother who posted the recent words of Shaykh Salim al-Hilali regarding Abul-Hasan, when you translated the speech of Shaykh Salim in defence of Abul-Hasan, but you cowardly deleted them! The reason, Allaahu A’alam, perhaps it was from your deep fairness!
Akhee, in hoping a positive reaction on you part, i suggest you to start with this good observation regarding the methods of quoting the speech of the Ulamaa, implemented by Shaykh Ali Hasan in his extraordinary book.
http://www.albaidha.net/vb/showthread.php?t=24087
And lastly, i see you have formed a strong alliance:
QSS + AHYA
I remember those past years, Shaykh Ali Hasan was heavily criticized from the AHYA members. But now the times have changed. The enemy of their enemy is their friend now.
Thats a good combination!
Akhee, i forgot, please, explain to us the condition of the well-known pupil of Imaam al-Albani, the noble Shaykh Salim al-Hilali, as you provided us in the past some of his articles. I hope he still is a pupil of Imaam al-Albani, isnt he?
RG’s Edit: Merged two comments into one, as well as edited some formatting for easier reading.
as-Salam ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah, Alban. I was wondering when you’d chime in.
Vile manner? Ha, seriously, bro? What I said about Chauhan is vile? And where did I say he was an evil person? If it’s beyond your scope, the fact that I say perhaps he’s got the excuse of ignorance on his side is clearing him of evil intent. Plus, if you think that’s vile, then what of comments like “the filthiest and the greatest liar of those on the face of the earth,” or “more of a liar than the Christians, for the Christians have dignity (sharaf) and if the Chritian knew that he lied, he would commit suicide, because they have dignity, contrary to [him] and his followers,” and “[his] followers are more astry than Pharaoh’s soldiers,” and “if the anti-christ emerged they would truly rush behind him,” and “if a man emerged claiming divinity (uluhiyyah) and lordship (rububiyyah) with the exclusion of Allah, they would truly rush behind him,” and “[he] is more harmful than Pharaoh,” and “more astray than al-Jahm bin Safwan, ‘Amr bin ‘Ubaid, Bishr al-Marisi, Saddam Husain, and Ataturk”????
What I said about Chauhan (i.e., that perhaps his ignorance excuses him of full blame) pales in comparison to these “gems” from your
ilahshaikh.Continually attack the Salafis?! Ha! Seriously, brother, you need to get your head out of your rear end.
Why would I need to give the other side, i.e., the sides attacking Shaikhs al-Maghrawi, al-Ma’ribi, and al-Halabi, when your buddies over at TROID, SP, Sunnah Publishing, etc., do such an outstanding job of doing so? Surely, they’re in no need of any help from me.
Secondly, as for deleting the quote the Maldivian brother posted from Shaikh Salim al-Hilali, I explained why I did so back when he first posted it. You can read my explanation here. You want to call that cowardly, then my brother, you have no idea what cowardice is. I know what motivated Shaikh Salim to say those words and chose not to have them posted on my blog for the reasons I mentioned in my comment. If you don’t like that, then that’s just too bad.
Here’s a reply. Maybe you can translate what’s contained in both the criticism and the reply for the audience here.
You really must be delusional, bro. I have no clue of this “alliance” you’re referring to, strong or otherwise. Heck, I don’t even have an account on their forum; their admins banned me and deleted my account … to this day, I haven’t bothered re-registering.
I wonder what makes you think that I wouldn’t consider Shaikh Salim one of Shaikh al-Albani’s pupils. Is there anything regarding the shaikh that I’ve said that indicates otherwise?
Akhee, you are a cheater!!! Go on akhee, i would suggest you to promote yourself at AHYA.
Cheater? Please, pray tell, what did I cheat at?
Also, why on earth would I need or even want to promote myself on AHYA?
“why dont you try to portray the other side of the fitnah of al-Maghrawi, al-Ma’ribi and lastly the fitnah of al-Halabi???”
It is not Rasheed or any other Salafi that are not tied to SP and Troid, who started the fitaan in the first place. Let’s use the truthful words of Shaykhana Yahya al-Hajuri when he said, “I say, be patient and cautious until the oppression comes from them, as Allaah the Elevated stated {And they are the ones who started against you the first time}…and then we will not leave a mountain except that we will pursue them in, whether it be the mountains of Dammaaj or elsewhere…” in reference to the Hoothies.
How sad it is the same with these brothers who ascribe themselves to the manhaj of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wasallam and then attack the Inheritors of the Prophet with zero respect and tolerance.
As for Shaykhana al-Maghrawi hafidhahullah, then various Ulamaa have mentioned over and over again, as recent as this year, to take knowledge from him. How oppressive it is to say al-Maghrawi and al-Awlaki are both Takfiris, while al-Maghrawi is over 60 years old and most of his teachers have gone to the grave, rahimahumullah. Fine then you come up with “jarh takes precedence over ta’deel” and then refuse to accept the through explanation, clarification and in some places recantation of Shaykhana al-Maghrawi?
At least stay in the deep blind hole you’re in before you speak garbage and deception.
“And lastly, i see you have formed a strong alliance:
QSS + AHYA”
Not as strong as the alliance between SP and Troid I guess. At least QSS has the decency and shame NOT to indulge in controversial affairs in their websites and yahoo groups, while the yahoo groups controlled by Maktabah al-Fawaid and the other sheep of salafitalk continues to show one-sided picture against whoever they have a beef with. WAllahul musta’an.
“I mean, how do these brothers even practically apply this advice of Shaykh Rabee’? He says, “and by Allah no one warns from it except the one who wants to divert the people from the path of Allah” – okay, so Shaykh ‘Ubayd wants to divert the people from the path of Allah??”
As is well known, what goes around, comes around. If you look at the people who play around with words such as “Madkhalis” and the likes, you’d see them entrapping the exaggerators with the words and actions of the Shaykhs they blindly hold onto.
One example:
Shaykh Rabee’ said, “Shaykh Faalih is from the most knowledgable of the people concerning the manhaj of the salaf and he is one of the most knowledgable of the people concerning the hiding places of the Qutubiyoon, Hizbiyoon and other than them.
And he is truthful in that which he relates upon them and in that which he critcises them for.
No one speaks (ill) of him except the people of innovation and misguidance, because he is from those who carry the banner of the sunnah, defends it and calls to it, he does not fear the blame of the one who will criticise and due to this they make war against him”
And then comes Shaykh Rabee’ with his words again, when the miskeen al-Harbi started accusing Shaykhana Rabee’ of hizbiyyah and bid’ah:
“Faalih and his hidden group have entered the cellars of darkness, twisting, watering down and there defense is with lies and falsification, and they attack either explicitly or indirectly every individual that speaks the truth.”
Other examples would include the case with Fawzan “al-Athari” al-Bahraini, and recently, Sh Hisham al-Aarif. This is getting hilariously sad to be honest. Pump someone up and then when the pumped one starts seeking out faults of Sh Rabee’, pump him down and throw him out of the manhaj, because “Imam of al-Jarh wat-Ta’deel” said so.
May Allah be pleased with ‘Abdullah ibn Mas’ood. He said, “None of you should blindly follow another man in regards to his religion, if he [one being followed] believes then he believes and if he disbelieves then he disbelieves. If you had to blindly follow someone, then take those who have passed away as examples, for indeed those who are alive are not safe from Fitnah.”
And that was while Ibn Mas’ood was still alive! So how about today, ya ikhwaan?
Akhi mohammad, the Madkhali’s are a tribe in arabia and it just happens to be that some of the members of the tribe are SCHOLARS so you should be careful of what you say about them.
“Just leave this sect of backbiting and slandering”
Akhee that is a very big accusation, they are a sect? The only people you hear calling shaykh Rabee’s manhaj a diferent sect are the takfiri’s and those from the ikhwanul mufliseenand then they say the real Salafi’s are Safr, Salman Aidh al Qarni, etc.
Please tell me who is Shaykh Rabee Backbiting and slandering? Don’t get me wrong, I disagree with what Shaykh Rabee (may Allah preserve him) said about Shaykh Ali Al Halabi (may Allah preserve him) and Shaykh Al Maghrawi (may Allah preserve him) but Shaykh Rabee is an Imam from the Imam’s of islam, so one has to respect him and the other scholars who are form the same tribe (shaykh Muhammad bin hadee, shaykh zaid al madkhalee etc).
An NO Scholar is to be blindly followed, cause they all make mistakes, and that is the problem with SP and people like them cause they blindly follow their shuyookh.
One more thing that i foegot to mention is that Sp, salafitalk and others like them over praise their shuyookh to the point where they act like their infallible and a lot of times i have noticed that one they get asked question they answer with a qoute from a scholar and not the evidence, for exapmple on the troid forum, a question was asked wether niqaab was a wajib so soembody replied and said:
“To the best of my knowledge, I understand that the scholars upon the minhaj of our pious predecessors all consider the Niqab to be an obligation for the woman. These scholars from the likes of Shiyekh Zayd bin Mohammad hadee al madkhalee.”
Exactly, no evidence mentioned just saying that such and such scholar said it is wajib. And actually a lot of scholars said that wearing the niqab is not wajib, so his/her’s reply was not exactly accurate, but thats beyond the point. jsut my 2 cents
Wallahu Talaa Aalam
BarakAllahu feek akhi Abdullah Al Hallak, may Allah reward you in the Hereafter for your respect and towards our ‘Ulama and Mashayikh and your defence of them in their honour. I would like to add, and I can provide various examples if needed, that in many occasions, it is the juhaal laymen that hang around the Shuyookh and influence them in their speeches. This was noted by Shaykhana Sultan al-‘Eid and even SP acknowledges and in fact promotes that Sh Wasee’ullah is just deceived by the ‘hizbis’ surrounding him for many of his positions. Can somebody guess who are hanging around Sh Ubayd and Sh Yahya to influence them in their speeches? Indeed Sh as-Suhaymi heavily criticised such juhaal youth in how they take out statements from the ‘Ulama to make grass appear red!
Also, regarding niqab, then I have heard brother Abu Khadeejah touching on the two different Scholarly opinions and saying a person is free to choose whichever opinion sounds more valid, so that particular person’s post on troid forum should not be taken as the official position of everyone at SP/Troid. I know the niqab issue was put by akh al-Hallak as an example, but khayr inshaAllah, just wanted to clarify.
But it is true that many opinions of current affairs and fiqh are indeed forced upon the laymen Salafis by the likes of SP. Examples include voting in the West, going to mixed university, etc. No matter how many Scholarly opinions you show to them, they’d keep saying their opinion is the truth and then apply the famous truthful quote of Imam ash-Shawkani rahimahullah, “Whomsoever follows the mistakes of the scholars becomes a heretic (Zindeeq)”
Funny how people like Musa Millington, in the pretext of having knowledge, use this quote to say: “Then there are some, like those in England, who say voting is Halaal and Waajib at times using the statements of Shaikh Wasiyullah, Shaikh Ibn Baaz, Shaikh Ibn Uthaimeen and others despite the plethora of evidences to show that voting is Haraam without a doubt since it is based on a Godless system where man is the only lawmaker. And Shaikh Yahya Al Haajuri said explicitly; as for those who support voting we consider them as innovators. And as a brother pointed out to me in a conversation I had with him; only people who want to vote would try to support voting.”
(http://aa.trinimuslims.com/showthread.php?t=7113)
Feels nice playing with the words of the ‘Ulama, doesn’t it, Musa Millington? That you have the audacity to equate an-Nawawi’s error in ta’weel with current issues and affairs, where many IMAAMS and ALLAMAHS have explicitly permitted, if not encouraged, to vote in the West, while acknoledging that voting in its asl is haram?
How does this illustrous title look like:
“Voting in the West makes a Muslim a Zindeeq: ash-Shaykh al-Allamah al-Faqeeh Abul Abbas Musa Millington”
It’s just sad that the laymen Salafis, men and women included, rely on these people like Musa Millington to convey them Salafism.
As salamu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu
It supprises me, and may be that Bro rasheed gonzales (hafiziullah)that his blogs is having some sort of impact on the minds of the “sheeps of sp,troid, etc” they have been feeding mixture of ecessive garbage, now that new land, like this blogs is growing fresh green pastures, showing and cultivating upon dalil of kitab and sunnah and what the OTHER scholars have said on the same issue, something that the sheeps cannot handle and stomach, as they got used to the garbage they have been feed.
Some of the salaf said “You would not know the mistake of your scholar, until you sit with another scholar”
Who are the other scholars they the sp have made link with other than the following, as if they are the ONLY ones:
Shaikh Rabee
Shaikh Ubayd
Shaikh Najmee
Shaikh Zaid
Shaikh Al Bannah
These are the mains one you will see they use for their web pages and jarh of other people and thats is the haqq.
But we also must not forget the, following:
Faalih al Harbee……… what happened to the slander, buhtaan, that was translated by troid, which i have the printed version, where scholars after scholars was belittled, until he was about to be taken to court that he sought Shaikh Rabee to intercede on his behalf? But the dua of Shaikh Muqbil “Allahuma la Yuflih”
But have we seen this other side from the sp and troid crew and their sheeps, no. Make tawbah for other but for them then delete…..
Remember Shakeel singapoore
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=14&Topic=333
For someone to translate, what shaikh saleem hilalee, then he has to make tawbah?, but when it comes to salafitalk, spubs, troid, etc translating filth and slander, guloo, then NO tawbah.
Makes you think, bro ALBAN, ask a question on salafitalk, and see whether you get a public reply, if not if private post it here?
Shaikh Muhammad al Anjaree
http://www.saltaweel.com/books/6
Shaikh Salim Taweel is coming to america, for all you american, ask him since his refutation on Muhammad al anjaree, has he applogised and made tawbah against the slanders aginst him?
Why did nit the sp, troid, salafitalk, translate this for the sheeps? again its aginst their manhaj? but if shaikh saleem taweel did say something against them then he is freed from and that is what the animals did in the uk.
He was asked about, “can we read the book of a person who was upon salafiyah, but then deviated”?
His reply was yes, as long as you know the issues he deviated in then that is not a problem.
Since his first visit, then we have not seen or heard hima again, except in the USA? Makes you think ALBAN?
Why do sp, troid, etc sell books of people who have gone of the manhaj?
Click to access manhaj_questions.pdf
The oppinion of shaikh muqbil is it being applied by the money making business? solution was we stick a label on the book?
Is salafitalk is for salafi to discuss and they are upon the haqq? Should it not be accessible for ALL the people? but instead, you need to provide reference of three stooges who know you? even if you are a liar, tale carrier, jahil,……?
Remember Ekbal as salafi….. ignorant as the filth upon the water, but he was barking what they wanted, then his dribbles, made you want to cry and laugh?
To this day, where is his tawbah? where is his clarifications in going to extremes? one has to see his dribbles in salafitalk?
ALBAN get answers on the above issues before accusing people here of anything?
I would advise you before crying and screaming, to know both sides of the story from the people involved?
If you went to a islamic court accusing people based upon someones elses proof? The Qaadi will ask you to bring the accused to defend himself? So where is you aql when you start accusing bro rasheed or anyone here of opposing the islamic manhaj and principles.
I hope this will open you mind a bit.
May Allah reward you the same and more, akhee Aboo Yusuf.
Akhee ilyas i wonder what SP/TROID says about this:
“Faalih ibn Naafi Al Harbi: The one who’s infatuated with extremism, haphazardness, and little to no fairness. He was insolent enough to make defamation of ash shaykh al allaamah Muqbil ibn Haadi Al Waadi’ee and included other than him from the ulamaa (in his insults and defamation) those in which Faalih isn’t equivalent to one of their (small) students with regards to benefit.”
Taken from: Shariyyatun Nush waz Zajr
Translated by Najeeb Al Angelesi
I guess Shaykh Muqbil and shaykh Yahya did not know the reality of him…
Akhee Ilyas, who’s Shakeel Singapoore? I’m from Singapore and i can’t say i’ve heard of him.
Maybe the British brothers who know Shakeel can correct me if I’m mistaken, but he’s a brother from the UK who originally translated the statement from Shaikh Salim al-Hilali I retranslated and posted here on my blog (the statement about manhood and his initial position with regards to Shaikh Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribi. I posted a comment about what happened with him here, with links to the salafitalk.net posts as evidence.
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon.. Shaykh ‘Abdullah bin Ghudayaan passed away today, may Allah have mercy on him.
Inna lillah wa inna ilaih raji’un. May Allah shower the shaikh with His mercy and forgive him of any shortcomings he had.
May Allah SHower HIm with his infinate mercy, ameen
Allaahummaghfir lahu warhamhu wa ‘aafihi wa’fu ‘anhu.
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon. May Allah make it easy on the Shaykh and have mercy on his soul. Ameen.
SubhanAllah just how much terrifying death can be, even for an ‘Aalim. I had the opportunity walhamdulillah to see the Shaykh live in one of the video conferences and his way of replying to the questions asked from the majlis amazed me. Someone asked if Imam Abu Haneefah rahimahullah was a Muhaddith and the Shaykh replied beautifully that the laymen should not concern themselves with whether Abu Haneefah was a Muhaddith; rather fear Allah and keep to His duties. Such was his wisdom.
And only 2-3 weeks back, Shaykh Muhammad al-Maliki hafidhahullah narrated in one of his Friday lessons that Shaykh al-Ghudyan came to Jeddah for a conference and was in the middle of a dars. As the Shaykh mentioned a Hadeeth, a young person, interrupted the Shaykh abruptly and said “the hadeeth is da’eef”. So the Shaykh put that person in his proper place by saying, “da’eef is you!”
So Shaykhana al-Maliki commented that is it not the etiquette of a Taalibul ‘Ilm to speak in that manner in a Majlis in the middle of dars, maybe the person read it from Imam al-Albani that the hadeeth has defect, but even al-Albani changed his opinions on some hadeeths when stronger evidence was witnessed by him.
We have lost a mountain of knowledge today, a lion from the lions of ‘Ulama of Ahlus Sunnah, and I can’t quite digest this tragedy.
Narrated ‘Abdullah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘As, that the Prophet of our Lord, peace and blessings be on him, said: “Allah does not take away knowledge (of religion) by taking it away from (the hearts of the) slaves, but He takes it (knowledge of deen) through the death of the Scholars (‘Ulama) till no Scholar remains; then people will take as their leaders ignorant people who, when consulted, will give verdicts (and opinions) without knowledge. So, they (the ignorant people asked) will go astray and will lead the people (asking) astray.” (Saheeh al-Bukhari and Saheeh Muslim)
Listen here to Shaykh Muhammad bin Muhammad al-Mukhtaar ash-Shanqeeti on the passing of Shaykh ‘Abdullah, this is from his class on Zaad al-Mustaqni’ in Makkah from tonight.. he saw the Shaykh (rahimahullah) last night in his dream with a bright, shining face sitting in the middle of a gathering of other scholars who had passed away before.
Inna lillahi wa inna ilayhi raji’oon. May Allah make it easy on the Shaykh and have mercy on his soul. Ameen
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=23&Topic=173
2. If a person has been given Ta’deel by some of the Scholars but others have criticised him with a Jarh Mufassar (Criticism which has been explained). Then the Jarh Mufassar has precedence.
Al-Khateeb said (Al-Kifaayah pg.142): “That the people of knowledge have agreed that the one who has been critcised by one or two and has been praised by the same number as those who made Jarh upon him, that indeed the Jarh (which is explained/detailed) is more deserving (To be accepted). The reason for this is that the one criticizing is informing us of a hidden matter which he has come to know of, so he affirms (that which the one) who has praised him (has said), and it is as if he is saying to him that I know about his apparent state what you know and I possess alone knowledge which you do not know due to examining his affair…..”
SO WHERE IS QUBOOL OF THIS ON MUHAMMAD BIN HADEE JARH MUFASSAR DONE BY SHAIKH SULTAN AL EID?
SO WHERE IS THE QUBOOL OF THIS ON MUHAMMAD AL ANJAREE JARH MUFASSAR DONE BY SHAIKH SALIM AT TAWEEL?
Shaikh Muqbil was asked, “When a narrator is declared reliable by one person and disparaged by four, or disparaged by one and declared trustworthy by four, then whose saying is taken? Explain to me with a single example of the books of hadeeth and rijaal concerning Jarh Mufassar, because I have given precedence to the general appraisal (ta’deel) of the many [rather than the single person’s jarh]?”
The Shaikh replied, “As for given precedence to the ta’deel of the many, then it is not correct. Because the criticiser has observed what the appraiser (mu’addil) has not observed. So for example, when you find a man always in the first row (in prayer), so you declare him thiqah, but your friend knows that he is not a haafidh (strong memoriser), rather he is weak in memory (da’eef ul-hifdh). So you know that the man is always in the first row, but your friend knows he works in a usurious bank, or that pictures (photos) are made of him (or by him) or he works as one who shaves beards (i.e. a barber), so the Jaarih (criticiser) has observed or come across what the Mu’addil has not come across. If ten people were to declare him thiqah, and then a single person has made criticism of him with a “Jarh Mufassar”, then the Jarh Mufassar is accepted…” (Ijaabat us-Saa’il Alaa Ahammil-Masaail, p.499).
SO WHO PRAISED MUHAMMAD BIN HADEE AND MUHAMMAD AL ANJAREE?
AND HOW MANY OF THEM?
BUT LIKE ALL ISSUES, THEY BRUSH THEM UNDER THE CARPET. LET THE DIRT MOUNT UP EVEN IF PEOPLE CAN SEE IT.
AND THEY ARE INVITED TO COME TO THEIR CONFERENCE IN UK?
MAKES YOU THINK HOW WAADHI THEIR MANHAJ IS!
http://www.madeenah.com/article.cfm?id=1273
“I would also like to point out that some people claim for themselves tazkiyaat (recommendations) from me and sometimes they will spread this amongst the people, however I don’t remember anything from this matter. Rather, that which is considered as a recommendation for a person is his own actions.”
SP and Troids Action speak volumes?
Salafi talk, the naamam and the buhtaan speaks volume?
Let them start going around the buddhist monks, with a bowl, to collect tazkiyah from shaikh fulaan ibnul fulaan, etc….
When will they start waking up from the fame game they are playing?
Nifaaq from their action and opposition to the manhaj is clear like the night and the day!
Asalaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuh,
I have just stumbled upon your site from another subhanaallah and though I have not read everything, was really refreshed by the content. I have seen, through the years, the situation of places like Salafitalk, troid, and spubs escalate to such an extreme. It has become hard to find people who identify themselves as upon as-salafiyyah who are not of the type to slander and malign anyone and everyone for even their minor mistakes that have been corrected. On the other hand, when you do find such people, they often go too far in the opposite way, insulting scholars like shaykhs rabee’ and ubayd among others and clinging to western da’ees with some errors (like the almaghrib guys and anwar al awlaki is a big one at the moment). There simply has to be a middle ground. Some brothers do have big errors, some of these western da’ees are leading many muslims astray and elevating themselves to a position of authority which they do not deserve and perhaps some of these certainly deserve to be warned against, but I cannot fathom why people like Al-Maghrawi (who has done so much for my home country) and others are warned against subhanaallah. The when people DO make legitimate mistakes and repent from them, correct themselves, of course it is still not accepted because ‘it wasn’t sincere enough’? or ‘he wasn’t serious’?!. A prime example of this would be their treatment of Abu Usaamah, who used to be a close friend of my family and Abu Muslimah. Both of them are continually insulted in the worst of terms over at SalafiTalk for small mistakes that they have since corrected and, in Abu Usamah’s case, his personal life/marriages which I do not believe influences his knowledge.
Currently, my family and I are trying to make a mini-hijrah within the US to a strong, salafi community (there are none in the community we are currently in, and I don’t mean that in an ‘everyone is off the minhaj way’), however its hard to determine where that would be as most places that are ‘advertised as being salafi’ and listed as such are the Salafitalk/spubs/troid.
BarakAllahu Feek ya akhi.
Also, not sure if this has been mentioned but I’ve seen now Madeenah.com and fatwa-online are being warned against subhanaallah. I find that quite amazing. I am pretty sure the only ‘crime’ they committed is that they don’t like SalafiTalk and Troid.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, “A.”
The two groups have actually been at odds for quite some time now. There’s a weird relationship, though, between both groups and those associated with them (which if you ask me, are pretty much one and the same in reality). While as groups, they’re now attacking each other, there are individuals who’re still associated with with guys on “the other side” who seem to have their working relationships healthy and intact. In all honesty, I couldn’t really care less about what happens between the two; they both propagate pretty much the same skewed mentality of Salafism that’s perverted so many people’s understanding of it’s really all about.
Gift from Shaykh Saalih as-Sadlaan for SP, TROID, SalafiTalk, etc.
Salam ‘alaik Akh Yusuf.
Can you provide us with the english translation? thanks.
SP Bradford UK Fund Raiser – Masjid and School
“Alhamdulillah, we have secured a building for the purpose of providing the community in Bradford with a Masjid and School”
more like
“Alhamdulillah, we have secured a building for the purpose of providing the SP (and ONLY those that agree with us) community in Bradford with a Masjid and School”
Hizbiyah
As we’d say sometimes back in the day … “BOOYAH!”
Too bad some of them already disgregard the shaikh, claiming he’s Ikhwani (according to Aqeel Walker, from Moosaa Richardson, who narrates directly from Shaikh Rabi’ and from Aqeel Walker, from Abu Uwais Abdullah Ahmad Ali, from Shaikh Fawzi al-Bahraini—how’s that for “isnad?”, heh.).
Here’s another (audio), but this time from Shaikh Dr. Salih as-Suhaimi (transcription here), when asked about hereticating Shaikh Falih al-Harbi.
May Allaah forgive the one who considers ash-Shaykh al-‘Allaamah Saalih as-Sadlaan hafidhahullaah an Ikhwani, someone outside Ahlus Sunnah. He needs no backup for his credentials and knowledge as it is well known, but Shaykh Dr Salih as-Suhaymi specifically mentions him along with other Shuyookh in a Q&A session dated 2006 with albaseerah.org as in: http://www.albaseerah.org/forum/showpost.php?p=2380&postcount=1
The advice was to cut off from internet forums where majhool and miskeen individuals tarnish the reputation of the ‘Ulama and tullabul ‘ilm. Shaykhana as-Suhaymi, mentions:
“We should suffice ourselves with the sites of the ‘Ulemaa – People of Knowledge. Those are known for not being hasty in giving their fataawa and who are known for their strength and firmness in knowledge – the likes of: the Mufti Shaykh Abdul Azeez aal-Shaykh, and the likes of our Shaykh Saalih al-Fawzaan, and Shaykh Abdullah al-Ghudayaan and Shaykh Saalih al-Luhaydaan and likewise our beloved Minister of Da’wah Shaykh Saalih ibn Abdul Azeez aal-Shaykh and Shaykh Abdul Muhsin al-Abbaad al-Badr and Shaykh Rabee ibn Hadee al-Madkhali and Shaykh Abdul Muhsin al-Ubaykaan and Shaykh Saalih as-Sadlan حفظهم اللهand other than them as I did not intend to mention all of them, but rather to give an example of the ones that I was referring to.”
Fear Allaah in your slandering of the ‘Ulamaa of Ahlus Sunnah.
SP did not accept advice of scholars rather they hated it. The recent post’s about Madeenah.com on ST only show further their lack of sincerity. All the advice directed to SP on Madeenah.com was from their scholars and since that time they have broken links with Madeenah.com and have been plotting and planning to get revenge. Now they have the support of Shaikh Muhammed bin Hadi, who has only added fuel to the fire by his support and ‘attack’ on Madeenah.com. I think it is obvious now who are the real liars! Birds of a feather flock together!!
Shaikh Sultaan al-Eeid Advises and Refutes Muhammad bin Haadee al-Madkhalee and Khalid Baaqees (Abu Zeiad al-Athary)
http://www.sultanal3eed.com/book/
From the book ‘an-Naseehah li-Aamat il-Ikhwaan wa Eedaah il-Kadhib wa’l-Buhtaan (Hiwaar ma’ Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee)’, summarised from pages 1-12 of the book
Bismillaah ar-Rahmaan ar-Raheem
All praise is for Allaah the Lord of the Worlds, and there is no enmity except unto the transgressors, I bear witness that there is no god worthy of worship except Allaah alone with no partner and I bear witness that Muhammad is His slave and messenger and Allaah’s chosen one from the creation, may peace and blessings be upon him, his family, his companions and those who followed them in goodness till the Last Day, to begin:
Allaah mentioned in His Noble Book the saying of Shu’ayb (alaihi salaam)
“I only intend reform as much as I am able. And my success is not but through Allah. Upon him I have relied, and to Him I return.” {Hud: 88}
Meaning in what I command you and forbid you I only intend your reform, see tafseer of al-Haafidh Ibn Katheer.
O noble brother: the Salafis all over the world have been tested with the recent fitna between the two noble Shaikhs (Rabee’ bin Haadee al-Madkhalee and Faalih bin Naafi’ al-Harbee).
From its bitter consequences is that: the hearts are split, the brothers are divided and enmity, hatred and boycotting has spread among them, their seeking knowledge has become weak and so has their da’wah to the manhaj of the Salaf and fighting against ahwaa’ and bida’.
Instead they have become preoccupied with each other and abhorrent Hizbiyyah has manifested itself for Shaikh fulaan against Shaikh fulaan! This has led many to flee from the Salafi da’wah and its people, and the enemies of the da’wah have become busy with what goes on among the Salafis so as to turn people away from the Salafi manhaj and its people.
The reality is a witness to this bitter effect. Issues have become clear which should have been covered up so as to protect the Salafi da’wah as you began to hear some people saying “are you with us or with fulaan?” after the same people used to say “this is the truth and we are with the truth!” Until the fanatical partisan of them says “whomsoever is not with us is against us! And so he has to be brought down!” Insha’Allaah, the words of our Mashaa’ikh on this will soon come.
From the blessings of Allaah on me and on our other brothers from the students of knowledge and noble Shaikhs, is that we did not get involved in the fitnah.
We did this out of following the advice of out Shaikh Saalih al-Fawzaan, I asked him when this fitnah began and he advised me not to get involved and our Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan advised us with the same.
Alhamdulillaah I heard much praise and thanks from the Mashaa’ikh and brothers about my correct mawqif which their admitted because it was based on consulting our Ulama and taking their advice.
But this did not please our brother Shaikh Muhammad bin haadee al-Madkhalee, may Allaah make him successful, because he was one of the main ones involved in this fitnah even though rectification from him was hoped for.
He joined in the fitna and incited it going around the country spreading it, he even did this in private gatherings at Istiraahaat in Riyadh and he did not even meet any of the Salafis in Riyadh except rarely.
The years passed and we – all praise is due to Allaah – strived hard, clarified the truth and the Sunnah, refuted bida’ and hizbiyyaat in our khutbahs, duroos and muhaadaraat and I found acceptance east and west from the Ulama, tullaab ul-’ilm and common folk.
During this time our brother Shaikh Muhammad did not have any efforts in Riyadh until what happened between him and his former companion Shaikh Faalih.
After this time our brother Shaikh Muhammad came to us in Riyadh giving lectures in order to gain supporters and he did this in private gatherings at Istiraahaat and other places. He then started criticising all those who did not join in with him in the fitnah and started inciting statements against those who did not get involved, he was supported in this by his few supporters.
Most of their statements were about their Salafi brothers such as their beloved brother Sultaan al-Eeid and they made many statements about me and to damage my reputation and warn the youth against me so that they would doubt their brother in the da’wah to the Sunnah. The only sin that their brother Sultaan did was to not get involved in the fitna and to continue on the way of our senior scholars!
Some beloved brothers within the Kingdom and outside of it, from Ahl ul-Ilm, requested that I expose this evil method and refute the rumours and claims of our brother, Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee so that those with little knowledge do not get deceived.
I have written this clarification based on written proofs from our brother Muhammad bin Haadee because the man is a coward and does not openly declare his slander on audio tapes or books.
Our brother Shaikh Muhammad has spread rumours which he has not brought any evidences for up to now!! Wallaahi he does not enter the house from its doors and does not follow the Shari’ way of giving naseehah.
Up to now he has not come to us with any enquiry, communication or letter about the abaateel he has promoted. We wish that he would raise the matter to our senior Mashaa’ikh if what he has spread is true, but he has rejected doing this!
He was advised, may Allaah forgive him, by some of the Mashaa’ikh and tullaab ul-ilm and they clarified to him and responded to the doubts about the fitna, but he continued on his way and did not return from what the suspicions that he promoted.
He continued to secretly spread his rumours among the youth who had no knowledge of the situation and those who trusted him.
If asked openly he would free himself from that saying “I do not know anything about Sultaan except good” and “Allaah has aided the Sunnah with Sultaan.” What is more amazing is that he slandered my deen and manhaj two years before this fitna and it is affirmed that Muhammad bin Haadee incited Faalih to speak about me! Our brother Shaikh Aboo Umar al-Utaybee said in his book ‘Irwaa’ ul-Ghaleel fee Difaa’ ’an ash-Shaikh al-Allaamah Rabee’’, page 119:
Second lie: his lie (al-Ma’ribee’s) on Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee when he said that Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee said “there are no Salafis in Riyadh except for one, Shaikh Abdus-Salaam Burjis” – this is a lie from many angles: I asked Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee about this and he said “this man (al-Ma’ribee) is a Dajjaal and he is a kadhdhaab!” Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee intended “the students of Shaikh Abdus-Salaam Burjis and Shaikh Sultaan al-Eeid and his students.” End of our brother Shaikh Aboo Umar al-Utaybee’s words that he printed in 1428 After Hijrah.
Yes, this is our brother Muhammad bin Haadee, he gives tazkiyah to Sultaan al-Eeid and even to the students of Sultaan al-Eeid in Riyadh even though Muhammad bin Haadee does not know them!
Because they did not get involved with him in the fitna Muhammad bin Haadee started to slander them and throw them out of Salafiyyah! It almost became like a shop that anyone can enter and leave!
I am not be pleased with what the noble brother Aboo Umar al-Utaybee mentioned in his book from the tazkiyah of Muhammad bin Haadee of me, because the man has two faces with me, one open and one secret. He gives tazkiyah openly and then slanders and warns people secretly!
Some proofs of this will come so do not be in a hurry!
Why did I turn away from him for three years?
Our noble brother Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee has been speaking about my honour and deen for three years and I have been silent for three years for the following reasons:
1. What he has mentioned about me are merely false suspicions, delusions and hypothetical ideas, so he says things like “you will see” and “I know more than you all know” and “my words will soon become clear to you” and “thiqaat have narrated to me” and then he is not even able to name these “thiqaat”?! This is what Muhammad bin Haadee used to refute Shaikh Faalih for and then Muhammad bin Haadee falls into it himself!!
Reasons for this clarification
This clarification is firstly because of what Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee and his helpers applied to me. His three helpers include two Saudis: Khaalid Baaqees and Abdullah al-Ahmad, and a Yemeni called Abul Abbaas Aadil bin Mansoor. I have explained the butlaan that they have spread about me and this is a response to what the four of them have spread about me, with Shaikh Muhammad being the main one. This is also my Shari’ right based on what Allaah said, “Allah does not like the open mention of evil except by one who has been wronged. And Allah is ever Hearing and Knowing.” (Nisa: 148)
Secondly, there is a general reason for this clarification which is to warn the Salafis from getting involved in this new fitnah and to explain the painful consequences of this fitnah on the Salafi da’wah.
In agreement with the kalaam of Ahl ul-Ilm such as Shaikh Rabee bin Haadee who said in al-Majmoo al-Waadih, page 163: “Then we come to the kalaam of Abdul-Maalik who said: do not get involved in this fitna because it is a difference among the Mashaa’ikh so whomseoever it does not concern should not get involved” – so Shaikh Abdul-Maalik’s words to the youth “do not get involved” does not mean that he be turned away from. Because most of the youth if they get involved in fitnah it will destroy them and this has happened. So it is better for them to not get involved and to stay away from it so as to preserve their aqeedah and brothers, and so leave the cure to the Ulama.” End of Shaikh Rabee’s words.
I hope that Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee and his helpers will revise what Shaikh Rabee’ said because by Allaah it is true. Only the one with a sick understanding would exhort the shabaab to support fulaan or fulaan. I hope the shabaab will pay attention to the final expression of Shaikh Rabee’ “leave the cure to the Ulama”. We say as Shaikh rabee says “leave the cure to the Ulama”, so kalaam pertaining to these issues are for Ahl ul-Ilm not for you O gathering of shabaab! So do not be deceived by the door being wide open in front of you to write whatever you wish on internet websites! Fear Allaah and do not issue rulings over the people of knowledge!
Between this clarification
6. It would have been befitting for Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee to do what we did by referring the matter of this fitna to those who are senior to us in ilm and age and to avert the common youth form getting involved. But he persisted in things he did not need to until he clashed with the Ulama and his Salafi brothers and took a way we do not see any of our Mashaa’ikh follow. This will be explained insha’Allaah.
8. Responding to the mistaken one from Ahl us-Sunnah is not denied (if it is made by Sultaan or other than him) but what is denied are claims that so and so is an oppose even though he is silent. What is also rejected is: producing secret guidance in private gatherings so as to bring down our Salafi brothers and warn the people from attending their lectures and listening to their khutbahs!
9. Pertaining to the issues that Shaikh Rabee, may Allaah make him successful, differed with his brother Shaikh Faalih, may Allaah make him successful – then our reference point before and after this fitnah is whatever is said by our senior scholars such as Shaikh Bin Baaz, Ibn Uthaymeen, Aali Shaikh, Ghudayaan, al-Fawzaan, an-Najmee and the fataawaa of the Lajnah ad-Daa’imah. We have no need for Qeel wa Qaal after this. Major issues have to be referred back to the senior scholars.
10. After this clarification came out and the talbees (deception) of this noble brother Muhammad bin Haadee was exposed along with those around him, we did not find from them a knowledge-based answer. All we heard, as usual, were claims with no daleel and their sayins which we always hear like “we know more about the reality” and “so and so defends fulaan against fulaan”!
From their methods is: to raise the flag of defending Ahl ul-Ilm and respect for them, even though they are the same ones who take Ahl ul-Ilm out of Salafiyyah, make tabdee’ of them and slander their honour and deen! Then they claim to respect Ahl ul-Ilm!? May Allaah fight against evil desires! Shaikh al-Ubaylaan spoke the truth when he said: “they warn from Hizbiyyah and then fall into clear Hizbiyyah themselves!”
From the book ‘an-Naseehah li-Aamat il-Ikhwaan wa Eedaah il-Kadhib wa’l-Buhtaan (Hiwaar ma’ Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee)’, summarised from pages 12-15 and 35-37 of the book
This last fitnah has had effects which have been other than praiseworthy for the da’wah Salafiyyah and by Allaah my fear of these effects are what prevent me from entering into this fitnah, not out of me supporting fulaan or fulaan as one with no concern for the masaalih or mafaasid thinks.
You have here some effects of this fitnah which some want (like Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee and his helpers) me, students of knowledge and the shabaab to delve into even with the knowledge that each side accuses the other of the same reason! And then produce the same effects.
This does not concern us, what is important is treating these effects after establishing them. From the effects of this fitnah:
1. Harming the reputation of the da’wah Salafiyyah around the world and causing people to flee from it.
2. Argumentation and disputation again and again, this fitnah began as an argument over issues then led to other issues which have not ended, except at the doors of the Sharee’ah courts! This has harmed the Salafi da’wah and those who follow it, and history will mot show mercy!
3. Averting the Salafi youth from knowledge and gaining understanding in the deen, so that now their main occupation is fitnah and their gatherings became filled with reports about fitnah, after they were filled with reading the Saheehayn and other books of Ahl ulI-lm. And so that my words will not be without daleel I will give an example. One of the annual Salafi conferences in the Hijaaz which I was involved in before the fitnah (Sharh of Laamiyyah of Shaykh ul-Islaam) used to have students numbering 400 according to what one of the organisers told me. Then after the fitnah the number of students went down year by year to the extent that the number of students reached just 25!
4. This fitnah harmed the manaabir of the da’wah Salafiyyah and so that it cannot be said that “he speaks without daleel” I will give an example of this. One of the Salafi internet websites which Allaah brought benefit with, and was one of the ways for good to srpead and for the truth and the Sunnah to be clarified and was a website that a number of Mashaa’ikh and Tullaab ul-Ilm would write for clearly using their names and there was great acceptance lillaahi hamd. So when the fitnah began it would have been more befitting for the moderators of the website to know that they are not the only owners of the website and that actually it was for all of the Salafis and is not the right of any person to use the site for argumentation which are not good for the da’wah. But the site fell into being an arena of argumentation where your friend was not known from your enemy because sometimes the Hizbee would hide behind a hidden name and show enmity to Salafiyyah. Or a foolish friend would write who has no understanding of the general masaalih to the da’wah, or the jaahil would speak about a matter that he does not fully understand properly. It sparked off disputation, argumentation and slander with vile speech to the extent that it filled the entire website. La hawla wa la quwwata ila billaah! It led to people fleeing from the Salafi manhaj.
THE RESULTS OF THIS WEBSITE ENTERING THIS FITNAH HAVE BEEN THAT:
A. Some of the noble scholars have turned away from writing on the website.
B. After these noble scholars stopped writing on the website it should have been more befitting to continue this good by gaining understanding from them and solving this issue. But this did not happen.
5. And from its bitter consequences: Tahazzub and tafarruq, enmity and hatred among the Salafi youth who got involved in this fitnah, as our Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan said in a question on this fitnah which was on Sahab. Our brother Abdul-Kareem al-Muhanna Imaam of al-Jaami’ al-Kabeer in the city of Shaqraa’ told us on Tuesday 5/10/1428 Hijri about what happened in Morocco when he mentioned to some people that he would visit one of his Salafi brothers there, and these people were followers of one man before this fitnah. They used to struggle against the grave-worshippers, Sufi Dervishes and Hizbees around them and Allaah brought benefit with their da’wah. Then the fitnah began and then two disputing groups emerged each having enmity to the other. They became occupied with each other and the da’wah failed. They said to me “if you go to visit them they will say you are such and such, and if you visit the other they will say such and such”!? End of Abdul-Kareem al-Muhanna’s words. Some of the Salafi brothers in Algeria told me, such as the brother Muhammad Shabeer, that the Salafis there fight each other in the streets over this fitnah!! Not to mention the tabdee’ which goes on among them which has lead to some of them abandoning Salafiyyah and even religion altogether! They became a proof against us and enemies of us and it can be said that the likes of this have taken place in other countries. Shaykh Abdul-Maalik ar-Ramadaanee said that some of the French people who became Muslim left the deen after they saw the disputes and fitan which were going on among our brothers!
8. From its fruits: damaging the reputation of the da’wah Salafiyyah with the Ulama and people in authority (Wullaat ul-Amr). As for the Ulama then their fataawaa and advice over this fitnah is clear and they described those who get involved as having Hizbiyyah.
THE “THIQAAT” OF SHAYKH MUHAMMAD BIN HAADEE AND HIS HELPERS
When Shaykh Muhammad, may Allaah grant him success, is unable to present daleel for what he says about his brothers he says “the thiqaat have narrated to me”. So when it is said to him: name them so that we can know their trustworthiness or not, he refuses to name them and keeps them hidden. So now I request that he names his witnesses by saying “fulaan testifies to this” and to mention what his witness has heard or seen, this is a condition. I also request, as other have, but he refuses to mention them. This is why, I attach this baatil and lies which he has spread about me to him (Muhammad bin Haadee) because he has not mentioned their names up to now. If the man wants to hide his witnesses and helpers and is scared to name them, then I will take the opportunity to name them for him.
These are the ones who have been spreading things along with their Shaykh Muhammad: a Yemeni and two Saudis:
The first one: A Saudi who is resident in Hijaaz called Khaalid Baaqees (Abu Zeiad al-Athary) who is of those who are close to Shaykh Rabee and love him. He is the owner of ‘Live Salafi Duroos’, but he, may Allaah forgive him, has evil suspicions and believes delusions. He spreads baatil about me and was not successful and all praise is due to Allaah, this is because he is not from Ahl ul-Ilm but he entered matters which he does not understand properly and then attacks others! He was the reason for spreading things about me:
This man (Khaalid Baaqee – ‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) contacted me during the first few days of this fitnah, inciting me against Shaykh Fawzaan! He was angry with Shaykh Fawzaan and had enmity to him! He requested that I go to our Shaykh al-Fawzaan and “advise him” (like this he said!?). I said to him: “what?!” He then replied that Shaykh Fawzaan sent a fax to Shaykh Rabee’ advising him over some issues, so I felt that this was not befitting for this man (Khaalid Baaqees – ‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) to say. And I do not get involved in the matters between two Shaykhs, and I did not get involved with them in this fitnah, so the man (Khaalid Baaqees – ‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) became angered and then began to spread things about their brother afterwards!! Khaalid Baaqees (‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) then contact others besides me from the Salafis inciting them against Shaykh Fawzaan due to this fax, Khaalid Baaqees (‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) contacted our noble brother Aboo Abdul-Azeez as-Sulaymaan al-Ya’eesh and he testified to this. Brothers have also testified that this man (Khaalid Baaqees – ‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) slanders our Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan and accused him of speaking about Allaamah al-Albaanee! Based on this brothers have stated that in the ‘Live Salafi Duroos’ room he does not allow the duroos of Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan.
When Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan was asked about this he said that they were all liars and refuted them. This man (Khaalid Baaqees – ‘Abu Zeiad al-Athary’) even has evil suspicions about Shaykh Fawzaan! And he does not allow the duroos of Shaykh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan! So what do you think he will say about their student Sultaan?!
My brothers: this is the calamity which has affected the da’wah Salafiyyah, the common man becomes able to make a ruling upon Ahl ul-Ilm! Here is a benefit from Shaykh Rabee (hafidhahullaah) when he stated in al-Manhaj al-Waadih, page 198, about those who slander our Shaykhs Fawzaan, Aali Shaykh and al-Luhaydaan: “These are the notables of the Sunnah and whoever defames them has followed his desires and has shown his bida’ and enmity to the Sunnah and its people.”
The second one: A Yemeni called Abu’l-Abbaas Aadil bin Mansoor from Ta’iz, he attended my khutbah a few years ago and used to work with the da’iyyah Sa’d al-Barraak, even though at the same time he used to make tadleel of him! He used to attend his lessons, as I’ve heard, and used to claim that he was “clarifying the Salafi manhaj through that job”?! Meaning: He used to work with him while he knows Salafiyyah and Hizbiyyah and then left him upon what he was upon?! When this fitnah began he spread things about me. The man, may Allaah forgive him, began to spread things about me in Yemen, and the refutation of Shaykh Muhammad is the same refutation for him because the source is all the same! Just as the manner is all the same! And the lies are what they are so there is no need to repeat them again. By Allaah I thank my Salafi brothers in Yemen because many of them called me asking me about what he was spreading there about me, such as our brother Shaykh Ahmad bin Safeel. He mentioned that Abu’l-Abbaas spread things about me which were not befitting and that he wanted to affirm these matters. I praised him for checking first with me, may Allaah increase him in goodness. The brothers in Yemen were surprised when they found out that this man was defaming my deen. He used to pass by all other Masaajid to come to my Masjid and pray Jumu’ah, the daily prayers, taraweeh and qiyaam behind me even up to this year (Ramadaan 1428), so why did he pray behind me even though at the same time he warns people about me?! So if the brothers in Yemen were surprised about the condition of this man, what is even more surprising is that the man warns from the callers to the Salafi manhaj, like his brother Sultaan, and then does to work with those who he views as being misguided and having Hizbiyyah (such as Sa’d al-Barraak) claiming that he is doing that in order to clarify the manhaj of the Salaf and convey the haqq?!
I ask Shaykh Muhammad bin Haadee, and this man is one of his helpers and witnesses, is it permissible with you to let the Salafi shabaab work with the likes of Safar, Salmaan, al-Umar and az-Zindaanee in preparing their lessons for them, in order to “convey the manhaj of the Salaf” as your companions have said?! And it has to be known that the one being testified against has a right with the Qaadee and others to censure lying witnesses and clarify their situation, especially if the prosecutor says they are “thiqaat”.
Of the shameful aspects of this man (Abu’l-Abbaas), may Allaah forgive him, is that he said to the brothers in Riyadh: “When I go to Yemen I do not warn against Sultaan at all, I just said: ask the Mashaa’ikh”! O people of Yemen if this man had warned against me then he is lying about this negation, you have no need of a liar against us. As for him saying “ask the Mashaa’ikh” then yes, the brothers asked the Mashaa’ikh and they gave me tazkiyah and refuted you and the brother Muhammad (bin Haadee)! Go to my website and you’ll see that! Some brothers have also testified that he also defamed me by saying: “Sultaan is obscure and has been unclear lately, he did not clarify his position about what happened between the two Shaykhs (Shaykh Rabee’ and Faalih).” The man is lying about this too, because he knows my position very well and that it is based on the fataawaa of our senior Mashaa’ikh such as al-Fawzaan and others.
So there is nothing obscure except that which is in his heart, which is the sickness of loving to be known during fitan, we ask Allaah for safety and good health. As for his saying “he has been unclear lately” then “unclear” about what?!
And if Sultaan was obscure then why did you bypass all other Masaajid to pray behind me?!
What angered our brother Abu’l-Abbaas, and this is the important issue, is that I told the shabaab to refer back to the fataawaa of the Lajnah ad-Daa’imah in regards to issues of eemaan that they differed over and not to refer to me! I do not know why he became angered and turned his face away from it?!
This is the condition of your second witness O Shaykh Muhammad! The brothers have testified that he says the likes of things that you say, so which one gets deceived by the other, the Shaykh or the student?!
From the book ‘an-Naseehah li-Aamat il-Ikhwaan wa Eedaah il-Kadhib wa’l-Buhtaan (Hiwaar ma’ Shaikh Muhammad bin Haadee)’, summarised from pages 39-43 of the book
A NEW WAY OF JARH
Shaikh Muhammad and those who are with him have taken a new way in Jarh which they have becomes distinguished with!? I fear that one who has no knowledge might follow them in this and this is why it is necessary to clarify it. From its distinguishing characteristics is:
1. Secret and open ikhtilaaf. Yes, he warns secretly and makes jarh in a hidden way, so he warns against his brother in private gatherings openly or tacitly. Then, he frees himself from having done this openly, rather he gives tazkiyah openly as he has done with me and I gave proof of this earlier.
2. Use of vague and general matters, so if we discuss with him he is unable to clarify them or explain them, and he is unable to present evidence for them…for this reason I request the brothers to separate from him and his likes and to not be pleased with them and their general matters which they confuse the Salafi shabaab with.
3. Indulging in what is not befitting, so you will find with them (Shaikh Muhammad and his helpers) blowing matters up out of proportion and glorification of their speech with terms of expression which makes the listener think that those speaking have ilm and khabr, or that he has come across something which no else has before, or that he (Shaikh Muhammad) is the first to expose the Hizbiyyah of his brother! And that he had ilm of fulaan’s misguidance and enmity to Ahl us-Sunnah years ago! Even though within that time he (Muhammad bin Haadee) used to give tazkiyah to him and defend him for the “general benefit” as is claimed!?
4. Use of unseen affairs and guess-work, so if it is said: what is your evidence? They say: “we know and you don’t know!” Or “it will become manifest to you”! Shaikh Muhammad should know that the Qadi of the Sharee’ah Court does not accept these accusations of knowing the unseen and guess-work, such as “we know and you don’t know” and “you will see” and the likes!
5. Rising to the occasion to make jarh of people and expel them from Salafiyyah and to make tabdee’ of them! This is even though the senior Mashaa’ikh are present, and this is what happened with Shaikh Muhammad’s close friend Shaikh Faalih, for Shaikh Faalih used to make jarh of people, and you (O Muhammad bin Haadee) and your helpers supported him and made him an “Imaam” and “the ditch between Salafiyyah and Hizbyyah”, the “bridge of the Salafis”, so after these praises he did not reject rising up to give jarh. But you O Shaikh Muhammad: why do you speak when these Shaikhs are present and they are more senior to you in age, knowledge, intelligence and knowledge, and in their knowledge of the men and their states like our Shaikh Ahmad an-Najmee, and our Shaikh Zayd al-Madkhalee, and our Shaikh Saalih al-Fawzaan and our Shaikh ’Ubayd al-Jaaibree and Shaikh Saalih as-Suhaymee, Shaikh ’Ubaykaan and others. Rather, they have all stated that they oppose you and they refute you for your ta’n on your brother Sultaan. So my advice to Shaikh Muhammad is: to not issue anything in this great affair, as he does not fully understand the affair as you can see!!
Sheikh Muhammad used to follow Shaikh Rabee’ and Shaikh Faalih in making jarh of men so then what has made him issue his own jarh now?! I remind you of the saying of the fuqahaa: “whoever rushes something before its time will be punished by being deprived of it.”
6. What can be noticed with Shaikh Muhammad and his helpers in their new slanders is: a lack of tathabbut (verification) and carefulness, and censured haste in making jarh of his brothers and expelling them from Salafiyyah. This is even though Shaikh Muhammad conceptually acknowledges tathabbut in his own lectures, yet practically he totally opposes it!!
I gave some examples of this before and I brought verification of his lack of tathabbut in regards to me and others. So the man slanders me yet as is said he does not know me, it is just “qeela wa qaal”.
After the discussion it becomes clear to you that Shaikh Muhammad is not upon anything!
I mean: he does not depend on anything verified, so if he was able he should have returned to my tapes, books and website so as to be verified. Or, he should have asked the senior Mashaa’ikh, but he just referred back to an old tape, before the fitna, so why does he issue this ta’n on his brothers and expel them from Salafiyyah?
7. Use of things which are unacceptable in an argument, such as his saying “the thiqaat have narrated to me”. So now I have a disagreement with him, so who are these thiqaat who he uses against me?! I have affirmed the lies of these “thiqaat” and what they have ascribed to me. By Allaah on you if his witnesses are thiqaat why doesn’t he name them?! We have shown the lies of his “thiqaat” and we seek from him that he names them and their testimonies and not to come with vague and general affairs.
8. Contradictions – Shaikh Muhammad and his helpers make ta’n of those who are famous for Salafiyyah and support the Sunnah and its people, and then he gives tazkiyah to a majhool and calls them “thiqaat” and we have affirmed their lies! Unfortunately, for some of our brothers jarh wa ta’deel has become the main knowledge, from Allaah we came and to him we return!
9. The method of destroying and dropping (a person) which is more dangerous, so according to them there is only a Salafi who does not make mistakes!! Or a Salafi who makes mistakes, according to what they think, and then his reward is to be expelled from Salafiyyah! This is what the extremist Haddaadiyyah do. This is why up to today we see them apply ahkaam from the right and left without any Shari’ dawaabit (principles) and without returning back to Ahl ul-’Ilm. In this way they are destroying the da’wah Salafiyyah, la hawla wa la quwwata ila billaah! O Allaah suffice us from the evil of fitna!
ADVICE TO MY BROTHER MUHAMMAD BIN HAADEE
This is the advice from a brother who has love for his brother:
1. I advise him to not rush in giving a hukm on his Salafi brothers and to know the true estimation of his own self. The reference point for these major issues are the senior scholars and he (Muhammad bin Haadee) has no part in this at all!
2. I advise my brother to be warned against following the lies of the youth who he thinks are “thiqaat” because they can make him fall into that which is not befitting for Ahl ul-’Ilm, as you can see.
3. I advise him to change his style of da’wah and giving advice. I advise him to stay away from vague and generalised methods as if he has hidden knowledge which others have not received yet! Which no one understands except him! I advise him to stay away from words like “you will soon see…” and “it will become clear to you…” and “he will soon do…” and “we know more…” and other terms which expose his bankruptcy of proofs and Shari’ evidences. This is what he did in his slander of me, may Allaah forgive him, and his words have been presented before which he cannot reject unless he denies making them, or unless he is sick and does not know what he is saying!
4. It is upon our brother Muhammad, may Allaah grant him success, who only goes on about the efforts of Ahl ul-Madeenah (!) to also admit the efforts of his brothers and his Shaikhs in Riyadh, the South, Shaam, Yemen and other places and to support them. He is better than denying the efforts of his brothers, and all praise is due to Allaah, in the East and West. which are efforts which none can deny except for….?! I say: the brothers admittance of the efforts of their brothers is better than the “manhaj of denial”, so Shaikh Muhammad should review himself and what he said about his brother “I do not know him…” and “I have not heard of him except for one old tape…” and “I have only seen him once…” and then warn from him and strive to cause corruption and drop his da’wah. Yes, this is support of Shaikh Muhammad and his Salafi brothers, may Allaah rectify his actions and suffice him from the evil of his own self! I say to Shaikh Muhammad and those like him: all praise is due to Allaah, we have no need of your support or your verification of our tapes! For Allaah will support us and make our da’wah reach the East and West, this is the virtue of Allaah upon he wills, even with our immense shortcomings. So if you (Muhammad bin Haadee) support the Salafis then I hope that you will withhold your tongue from your Salafi brothers and refrain from causing fitan against their efforts and trying to strive to corrupt their efforts by saying: “do not go to the lectures of fulaan”, “do not listen to fulaan”, “fulaan inclines towards Faalih”, “fulaan has Haddaadiyyah” to the end of such terminologies which are repeated during these days and what the Libyans and Algerians get pre-occupied with.
5. I advise the brother, Shaikh Muhammad: to not emerge in these types of fitan which are among the Mashaa’ikh, and which the senior scholars speak in, such as the Mufti, Shaikh Fawzaan, Ghudayaan, an-Najmee and others. I remind of what al-Allaamah, an-Naasih, Shaikh al-Albaanee, may Allaah forgive him, stated, who Shaikh Muhammad manifests defence for, and he is correct in doing so, his rich and precious advice when Imaam al-Albaanee stated: “Love for fame will break one’s back!” (hubb adh-dhuhoor yaqsim adh-dhuhoor)!” We ask Allaah to make our actions sincerely for His Noble Face.
6. Just as I remind Shaikh Muhammad, and all of our brothers, about the rights of our Ulama of the Sunnah, such as the three Ulama of the Sunnah of our time: Ibn Baaz, al-Albaanee and Ibn Uthaymeen and others from the Lajnah ad-Daa’imah and our noble Shaikhs. We love them all and are not pleased that any of them are slandered. Whoever of them makes a mistake then this is a drop within the sea of his good deeds and Allaah will forgive him. From their rights upon us is that we spread their knowledge and I think that I, and all praise is due to Allaah, are from those who strive to spread the knowledge of our Shaikhs: Ibn Baaz, al-Albaanee and others from our Ulama and Imams, may Allaah forgive those of them who are dead and bless those of them who are alive. My tapes and khutbahs are famous, and all praise is due to Allaah, I refer to their knowledge within them. It is an honour for me to be a servant to ilm and the Ulama from Ahlus-Sunnah and to defend their honour. So whoever spreads about me what is contrary to this then Allaah is between us and I will complain to my Lord
7. I also advise my brother Shaikh Muhammad to make tawbah to Allaah for what he has put out from his slander of his Salafi brothers, especially our Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Ubaykaan, by spreading a foolish story, as for me then I have a position toward him (Muhammad bin Haadee) which is not hidden, and Allaah will take my right from him and those who help him.
As the poet said,
We are passing towards to the day of Judgement,
When Allaah will gather all disagreements
Shaykh Rabee (hafidhahullaah) when he stated in al-Manhaj al-Waadih, page 198, about those who slander our Shaykhs Fawzaan, Aali Shaykh and al-Luhaydaan: “These are the notables of the Sunnah and whoever defames them has followed his desires and has shown his bida’ and enmity to the Sunnah and its people.”
The above quote of Shaikh Rabee is stopping SP from refuting Shaikh Al Shaikh. He is on a complete different ‘manhaj’ from them. They would never refer any issues of dawah to him and have never done. They would get a slap in the face!
A NEW WAY OF JARH
Shaikh Muhammad and those who are with him have taken a new way in Jarh which they have becomes distinguished with!? I fear that one who has no knowledge might follow them in this and this is why it is necessary to clarify it. From its distinguishing characteristics is:
1. Secret and open ikhtilaaf. Yes, he warns secretly and makes jarh in a hidden way, so he warns against his brother in private gatherings openly or tacitly. Then, he frees himself from having done this openly, rather he gives tazkiyah openly as he has done with me and I gave proof of this earlier.
The same happened with SP. Secretly to the madeenah.com brothers he ‘attacks’ SP specifically Abu Khadijah, but openly slanders Madeenah.com and calls them the liars!
It does’nt get any worse then this:
now SP have the stamp of approval, watch them abuse it
RG’s edit: Formatting (i.e., added the blockquote tags to highlight the quote).
SP Principle of co-operation
Co-operate with kuffar but not with Muslims (ahle bidah) to achieve some general benefit for the muslims. Ajeeb! Their actions speak louder than words in demonstrating this principle.
Akh Abdul Muhsin: I came across that too. And it even stated the name of some brothers who witnessed it, some of them being Madeenah graduates.
For an outsider like me, it might seem to us that Shaykh Rabee’ isn’t aware of the reality of SP, particularly Abu Khadeejah.
But our respect for the Shaykh somehow holds us back from thinking of such.
So i’m wondering if any of you brothers can give some words of advice with regards to how we can accept this reality without disrespecting the Shaykh.
Another possibility is that the shaikh, himself, isn’t all that different than SP.
People tend to behave the way the people they look up to behave. One common thing with these brothers/sisters who suffer from this exaggerated and skewed understanding of Salafism is that they all look to Shaikh Rabi’ as some solitary beacon of guidance and direction. He’s their main source of what’s ok and what’s not ok, who’s on and who’s off. If there’s a controversy between two other scholars they look to, they always go back to Shaikh Rabi’ for guidance.
While I love and respect the shaikh for his beneficial contributions to Salafism, his behaviour and role in the crap we find ourselves in today is one of the main reaasons why I will probably never listen to another lecture or read another book or article by him.
“While I love and respect the shaikh for his beneficial contributions to Salafism, his behaviour and role in the crap we find ourselves in today is one of the main reaasons why I will probably never listen to another lecture or read another book or article by him.”
Include Shaikh Ubaid al Jabiree and shaikh muhammad bin haadi.
Forgive me, but these three shaikhs have said things that makes their credibility of a scholar, like of shaikh Bin baz, Ibn Uthaimeen and Al Al Albani (may allah have mercy upon them all), to be as insigficant that what shaikh abdul muhsin al abbad said about Faalih al Harbi, will not come close to the ankle bone of those whom faalih did jarh upon and which the Current three shaikhs supported his filth.
Does that not make you think their manhaj is very different from that of the Ulema, like shaikh fawzaan, Shaikh Abdul Muhsin al Abbad. and others.
Why is it that gulaat sp and troid refer to the above 3?
It’s been quite a while since I took anything those two particular shaikhs have said with any seriousness. I have a general dislike for reading from or listening to any shaikh I sense the same sort of exaggeration from, and it’s sad to say that there are quite a few of them from among the familiar names of scholars associated to Salafism.
Well…there’s no getting around it now I suppose.
This may well be a disaster…(not that it shouldn’t have been expected)
Here’s a rough translation of what the shaikh said.
The shaikh was first asked about the permissiblity of declaring some shaikhs astray and is given the example of Shaikh Adnan Ar’ur, who the questioner says some youth have hereticated, some others have declared him astray, while some have even gone to the extreme of excommunicating him. The shaikh replied saying that these are tribulations, that this is from the inspiration of the devil (he uses the word wahy, which could also be translated as revelation) and from the devil’s playing with the Muslims, dividing their unity, and weakening their condition, that they speak about what is between them, regarding their scholars and the students of knowledge among them. This in turn causes our enemies to laugh at us and ridicule us and see the Muslims as being a people of differing and who have evil in them. They use this to tell people not to listen to us or embrace our religion, or their condition will be like our condition, i.e., people of differing and people who have evil in them. The shaikh says these people chase others away from Islam through their actions and words and that it is not from the methodology of the Predecessors, nor from the methodology of the People of the Sunnah to attack each other. The sign of the heretics is that they attack each other and criticize each other, whereas the sign of the People of the Sunnah is that they mutually advise each other and cooperate upon righteousness and godliness.
He mentions that Shaikh ‘Adnan is only known for good and that he (i.e., the shaikh himself) has known Shaikh ‘Adnan for more than 40 years, that he is a man upon the creed of the People of the Sunnah and Congregation. He mentions that there is no infallibility except for whoever has it (i.e., the Prophets) and that if he (i.e., ‘Adnan) or another errs, then he is to be advised about his error and shown what is correct. As for describing him with this or that, then the ones who do this while claiming that they have a shaikh they are referring to, then their shaikh has gone astray, erred and made a mistake in this matter. He says we’re obliged to mutually advise about the problems between us, quoting Allah’s words, «You are the best nation brought out for the people. You order the recognized good and prohibit the reprehensible things» (3:110). As such is our description, the nation of Muhammad (saws). All of them are just and the best choice.
He says that no one from the Muslims should say that either so and so says what I say or I will criticize him and hereticate him and … and … and … until the end. He said imposing requirements on the people, like whoever does not hereticate the heretic is a heretic, requires investigation. He said no one can coerce him to hereticate anyone; he holds to the Sunnah and calls to it and whoever commits a heresy, we are to advise him if we are able to. He then warned the youth from this corrupt methodology and from this way that only brings about harms, chaos and dispute, quoting Allah’s statement, «Do not dispute and thus lose courage and have your strength depart. Be patient; surely, Allah is with the patient ones» (8:46).
He said the sign of the people of heresy is surely that they criticize each other openly and declare each other to be astray, while the sign of the People of the Sunnah is that they correct each other and advise each other, they unit and do not differ. He mentioned how the companions of Allah’s messenger (saws) used to differ in an issue, each having an opinion, then they would stand and shake each other’s hands, gather in their sittings, for their wedding banquets, and other than that. Then he asked Allah to guide us to the Sunnah.
The shaikh was then asked about those who hereticate and declare others astray doing so claiming that there is disparagement (jarh) and accreditation (ta’dil) and that the disparagement comes before the accreditation. The shaikh replied saying that these people have taken this matter as a means for other than its intended purpose. The issue of disparagement and accreditation is with regards to the narrators of hadith: if I come with a narrator about who something negative has been said, or he forgets or is negligent in his narrating, or such and such, and it’s established or conveyed that he is a person who swindles his narrations (i.e., he narrates from those he hasn’t really heard from or disguises narrators he’s narrated from in order for his narrations to be accepted) or someone who narrates reprehensible (unacceptable) narrations, then it is befitting that we clarify the truth and criticize this person saying “do not narrate Allah’s messenger’s hadith from him until he repents to Allah and his integrity is established.
shukran Akh Rasheed. Barakallahu feek.
Honestly brothers this is so ridiculous and it serves as a continuous embarrassment in the name of “the da’wah” from these brothers.
These two recent things – [1] the beef with Madeenah.com and [2] the latest praise from Shaykh Rabee’ – once again demonstrate their flawed understanding of Islam.
Alright, that’s nice that Madeenah.com, CalltoIslam.com and others haven’t “made itself clear” with regards to al-Ma’ribi, Ar’oor, and others – now please prove to me that this is obligatory for them to do?
Also, while you’re at it, please show me where anyone has to agree with your view on another individual – whether al-Ma’ribi or anyone else – in the first place?
And likewise, bring proof to me from the Qur’an and Sunnah that I have to accept a scholar’s praise or condemnation of someone else? And along with that, that it is also permissible and even encouraged for me to then bind others with his stance?
In fact, there’s no proof for any of that. They have no evidence to make a big deal about any of these issues to begin with, which only makes it so much more absurd that all of this has reached this point throughout the years.
Listen here to Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymi, from 3 years ago, stating that those who bind their view on others with regards to individuals. He says those who do this are more ignorant than cows.
Shaykh Ibraaheem ar-Ruhayli tells some Algerians here to return to their intellect and realize how foolish they’ve been these past years boycotting scholars and students of knowledge over this stuff.
And plenty of speech is out there by greater scholars in our time explaining that you can’t bind issues of ijtihaad on one another, but for a person whom is misguided a thousand proofs aren’t going to be sufficient for him.
But really that’s the deep down secret, all of these issues of “al-jarh wat-ta’deel” return back to being issues of ijtihaad. Simply because Shaykh so-and-so says it, doesn’t make it fact. This is the same hole those who have ta’assub to maddhabs have fallen into. Yes, their scholars are outstanding and each of the 4 imaams was magnificent on his own – may Allah have mercy on them all – but their speech alone is not a proof, so what about when it comes to issues of ijtihaad.
Notice whenever any of these “issues of manhaj” like tabdee’ and boycotting are mentioned… next time you read any of it, notice how little of evidence is being mentioned and how much the speech of men is being used. Of course, to these brothers they think the speech of scholars is evidence and that’s one of the root causes of this entire problem.
These are all of the issues Shaykh ‘Ali al-Halabi outlined in Manhaj as-Salaf as-Saalih, which is why they were freaked out by the book. Since then, others have written even more to stress that this way of binding others with certain views, boycotting, and removing others from Ahl as-Sunnah is a way that is astray.
But as I mentioned before… at this point, does anyone really think any of these brothers really care about these issues they’re always talking about? Or could it be that there’s something else that has been motivating them for all of these years to create so much fasad and try to remain “number one” in the da’wah scene?
Allah knows best, and to Him alone is our complaint.
Emphasis added. I think the italicized and bolded portion of this quote nails it right on the head, but of course, only Allah knows this for sure.
The bomb is about to be dropped!
Madeenah.com and co are visiting the kibaar shaikhs in Medina regarding Muhammed bin Hadi recent support of SP and disparagement of Madeenah.com. Soon to be released on Madeenah.com!
I am afraid for Muhammad bin Hadi now, because with them he is going to be discarded now after being used to suit their agenda.
But, so what!? Join the club! I am glad to hear that madeenah.com is taking a stand, because someone has to check these dudes!
Where did you read that?
Shaikh Muhammad bin Hadi is a small fish in the pond. I seriously doubt that dropping “the bomb” on him will have any significant effect in rectifying the sad state of affairs we find ourselves in. The “Kingfish” of this exaggerated Salafism is Shaikh Rabi’ bin Hadi, and I doubt that having “a bomb” drop on him will do much to fix things at this point. Seriously, the only thing I see happening is one side rejoicing while the other looks to retaliate armed with more statements and more spin doctoring.
People need to get over this fascination with personalities and their statements and start learning what Salafism is all about. Only then will things start getting better. Having Shaikh X speak ill of Shaikh Y does nothing but fan the flames, increase the confusion, and making Salafism look even more of a joke.
is anyone going to be getting to be getting one of the samsung galaxy s variants? im hoping to get my hands on the sprints version that will be dubbed the samsung epic 4g…inshaa Allah.
i know the above statement is out of place for most if not all of you…but it’s more relevant to me. plus i wanted to finally write something on akhoona rasheed’s blog and didn’t know what else to type.
You’re lucky you’re my friend, Abu Subay’ah, otherwise I would have deleted your comment :P .
This is ridiculous…what is this, some sort of spanish soap opera? or a circus? Or Islam? نسأل الله العافية
Even if they do “drop a bomb” it doesn’t really solve anything, someone else will just go to other “kibaar” and become “your source of authentic Islamic knowledge” and give you the “salafee” position on everything…
The problem is the mindset that makes you throw everything that you know and experienced away, and makes you act in conflict with the basic مقاصد of the sharee’ah and in conflict with simple reason and intellect because shaykh foolaan who you barely know anything about said so by so…so so by so it is…
RG’s edit: Added <blockquote> tags for formatting.
السلام عليكم،
I just got hip to this blog and it’s excellent. You sound very balanced and JUST in some of the things you’ve mentioned and I appreciate that. I have found it difficult to find Salafi brothers that “know” what they’re talking about and aren’t fanatics. Is all of QSS like you? like minded? I know that’s a real general question.
I’m a younger brother that got hip to the salafi da’wah ~6 years ago. I am disgusted with what I see of the backbiting and the refutation of so and so, and the mentality.
I have deduced that the main reason is there is a lack of critical thinking skills that are needed to discuss such things. Even if one presents some statements or scholars (using their usul that they use), they just DON’T get it. They’ll read it, and it’ll go one ear out the other without understanding.
Sorry for my rant. just wanted to say. جزاك الله خيرا and that I’ve been looking for something like this, and brothers such as yourself for a LONNNNNNNNNNNNG time.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, “Yus from the Nati”.
Like most groups, the brothers and sisters associated with QSS, whether in Canada or the US, are a collection of individuals, each with their own levels of understanding, knowledge, and adherence to the religion. I can’t really speak for the brothers in the US, but those of us here in Toronto all pretty much vary to certain degrees in all those areas. Some more religous than others, some have a better understanding of things related to methodology than others, some are more academic than others, some are more open minded than others, while some still have some exaggerated views, etc., etc., etc. … . Generally, though, I’d like to think that we all share similar mindsets or undestandings–or at the very least, are trying to learn what Salafism is all about (if we don’t already).
Man, O man, have I got a treat for some of you, courtesy of Yusuf (may Allah reward him immensely for showing me this book–by Allah, I can’t thank him enough). For those of you who can read and understand Arabic, you really have to take a look at this book. It’s a book by a shaikh named Muhammad bin Muhsin al-Farhani critizing a book by Shaikh Yahya bin Ali al-Hajuri titled, at-Tabaqat li-ma Hasal Ba’d Mawt Shaikhina al-Imam al-Wadi’i rahimah Allah fid-Da’wah as-Salafiyyah bil-Yaman min al-Halat. He mentions some truly wonderful things that many don’t know about, varying from actual accounts of events that occurred in Dammaj to statements made by Shaikh Muqbil that are in opposition to what SP/TROID/et al. and the handful of shaikhs they quote from are trying to promote. For those interested in reading the book, you can download it from here: http://mareb.org/showthread.php?t=8261.
I’ve just started it and already am totally loving it. Hopefully, if I can get some time to sit down to translate some of it, I’ll post up some tidbits here and there for those of you who can’t read and understand Arabic, Allah willing.
This stuff is great. Thanks again, and again, and again, and again … hahaha.
As-salam ‘alaikum,
barak Allah feek. I am constantly made aware of the various fitan taking place in the communities of Ahl as-Sunnah in the West through various Internet websites. The one thing all sides seem to have in common is a lack of understanding of Salafiyyah, i.e. Islam.*
Though this post in particular is on this very phenomenon, I find it strange that you yourself seem to be allowing yourself to be embroiled in it further, rather than turning your back to it completely and using this blog as a medium to focus on Allah ‘Azza wa Jal and gaining His pleasure.
To do this, of course, would require that we not engage ourselves in fruitless and specious back-and-forth arguments with one another, gheebah, and topics that have nothing to do with us.**
Alhamdulillah, other than the two points below, this is all I have to say. Barak Allah feek, was-salam ‘alaikum.
*Indeed, it seems those taking part in this fitan in the name of Salafiyyah (those in Arab countries even, mind you) understand this da’wah to be primarily one of talking about the affairs of other people, to put it simply, rather than viewing it as being Islam itself. Were we to do the latter, who would find the time (or even find it remotely important) to talk about what SPUBS is doing or what this or that group is doing?
**One of the most damaging activities is for laymen such as ourselves to take on matters that are completely beyond us both in scope and in relevance and to prioritize them to the extent that discussions are not spent on understanding Allah’s Qur’an or the Prophet’s Sunan, sallallahu ‘alaihi wa sallam, but on what this scholar said versus what this scholar said and and why the two are fighting. Wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.
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Relevant for Abdulilah should make tawbah due to his twisting Abu Usaamah’s words as if he is attacking Shaikh Rabee’.
Beware of this Path O Servant of Allaah – 1
Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee
Reference: http://www.alsoheemy.net
I would like to bring to attention, to the students of knowledge especially, an important issue related to advice. I warn you, as well as myself, from a number of issues:
Beware of ilzaamaat (the claim that if someone says A, he must believe B). Many ilzaamaat make a person imagine there is an error when, in reality, there is no error.
Beware of cutting up [and putting together or tailoring] your brother’s speech, for indeed this leads to discord with blameworthy consequences.
Beware of being hasty in judging others!
Beware of accepting rumors!
{O you who believe! If a faasiq comes to you with any news then verify it} [49:6]
And Allah the Glorified says:
{O you who believe! When you go (to fight) in the Cause of Allah, verify (the truth), and say not to anyone who greets you (by embracing Islam): “You are not a believer”; seeking the perishable goods of the worldly life} [4:94]
You must return to the major scholars in issues that are unclear to you.
Beware of being among those who try to walk before they can crawl (lit. those who are picked before they are ripe).
Beware of those who make ilzaamaat, those who are arrogant, the pseudo-scholars, and those who lack etiquette when dealing with scholars and students of knowledge.
Indeed, this is from the diseases of this time period! Indeed, this is from the diseases of this time period!
Many people are putting themselves forward in dealing with issues that they are not qualified to handle. Others have stormed through doors they are not proficient at opening, nor in dealing with what is within them.
This has resulted in differing, confusion, chaos, jealousy, division and despair; especially if these affairs are taken to other than those it should be taken to [i.e. the scholars], because indeed this is from the signs of the hour.
So beware – O servant of Allah – from traversing this path!
Beware of traversing this path! Return to the major scholars in issues that are unclear to you.
Beware of understanding your brother’s statements in a manner that is contradictory to what he intends, or in a manner that is according to your own desires. Some people are oppressive when it comes to understanding other’s statements, as they twist their speech to make it mean other than what was intended. In some cases, such a person resembles the Jews, when Allah ordered them to say ‘Hitah’ (forgive us), they said ‘Hintah’ (a grain or seed).
So beware, O servant of Allah, from traversing this path!
Relay [only] what you are certain about and what you have thoroughly understood. As for something that you are not sure about or did not thoroughly understand, then let those who are qualified deal with it and beware of trying to walk before you crawl!
Beware of being hasty in judging others!
Beware of rushing to make a judgment about your brother due to him merely making a single mistake. Some people hurriedly place a ruling on their brothers while their manhaj is one!
They make conclusions that cannot be drawn [from his speech], they apply texts as evidence where it does not apply, they use texts as evidence for things they are not evidence for, and they twist the statements of their brothers to mean what they do not really mean.
They have pseudo-scholarship (ta’aalum), arrogance and harshness in their speech to a degree that cannot even be imagined.
So beware of traversing upon this path!
{Call to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a manner that is best}
…to be continued.
Translator: (Yours Truly) Nadir Ahmad, Abu Abdul-Waahid, from Yours Truly Madeenah.com
As salamu alikum wa rahmatullah wa barak tu
It saddens me the way gulaat of usa and uk, will not think of the damage they are doing to the salafi dawah!
The recently i have recieved the email from them spreading shaikh rabee has made tabdee of shaikh alee hasan is an innovator?
what evidence they used?
becuase shaikh rabee said it? is his kalam revelation?
i have never met retarded minded slafies of the west, troid, sunnahpublishing, sp, salafitalk, etc…
may allah guide us them to follow the quran and sunnah as understood by scholars of this ummah, also that we follow the ijmaa of our ulema and we do not make people or individuals as a criterion rather than proof.
Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:
Leaders have no right to create factionalism among the people and stir up enmity and hatred, rather they should be like brothers, cooperating in righteousness and piety, as Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Help you one another in Al‑Birr and At‑Taqwa (virtue, righteousness and piety); but do not help one another in sin and transgression”
[al-Maa’idah 5:2]
No one should form a covenant with another person, agreeing to everything that he wants, taking as friends those who take him as a friend and taking as enemies those who take him as an enemy. Rather the one who does that is like Genghis Khan and his ilk, who regard those who agree with them as friends and those who disagree with them as enemies. Rather they and their followers should adopt the covenant of Allaah and His Messenger by obeying Allaah and His Messenger, doing what is enjoined by Allaah and His Messenger, and regarding as haraam that which has been forbidden by Allaah and His Messenger, and paying attention to the rights of leaders as enjoined by Allaah and His Messenger.
Majmoo’ al-Fataawa (28/15, 16).
They’ll probably point to the points Shaikh Ahmad Bazmul and others have written against Shaikh Ali Hasan as evidence–at least for the time being. That is, until Shaikh Rabi’, himself, starts writing, which I would expect to take place some time soon.
This news of Shaikh Rabi’ speaking about Shaikh Ali publicly was something I was expecting way back when I wrote What’s the Deal with QSS?!?! in February of last year. I knew it was only a matter of time before the “King of the Hill” would lay down his decree. There are only really two things that surprise me about this: 1) that it took this long, and 2) that the guys behind Madkhalis.com (i.e., Abuz-Zubair, justabro, et al. from IslamicAwakening) seem to be the first to relay this news in English, while those I thought would’br jumped at the prospect of “officially off’ing” the shaikh (i.e., SP, TROID, Maaz of SunnahPublishing) seem to be pretty quiet about it so far.
Edit: I thought I’d post this little quote from Shaikh Rabi’ as a little reminder for those who didn’t see this coming: “If you do not topple al-Maghrawi–you and Abul-Hasan–then I will topple you both together!!!!” – Shaikh Rabi’ to Shaikh Ali Hasan over eight years ago (Source).
“That is, until Shaikh Rabi’, himself, starts writing, which I would expect to take place some time soon.”
Why is that? I.e. why do you expect him to write something himself?
If he does it’ll be “nice” to see an “ilmee” response rather than all these pointless rants we’ve been seeing.
As this point though, I have to ask myself…Maybe our bros at islamicawakening were right…
He’s done the same to his other victims in the past: Shaikhs Adnan Ar’ur, al-Maghrawi, Abul-Hasan, and Falih. I wouldn’t expect him to do any different with Shaikh Ali Hasan. He always follows the same M.O. Let his followers from among the shaikhs and students to refute and attack, while he sits back and offers advice and tells everyone to chill and relax, to leave it to the scholars. Then after some time, he comes out and declares the person to be a heretic stating that he’s been patient with the person for x amount of time. Then he starts writing against the person with his usual use of pretext and hyperbole.
Leave all this kalaam ya ikhwaan. Leave these matters to the scholars.
Shaykh ‘Abdul Mushin Abbaad has said in his book rifqan ahli sunnah bi ahli sunnah: “The students of knowledge should return to the Presidency of the Deliverence of Verdicts for their questions about the conditions of individuals”
So O brothers leave this matter to them. The Permanent Committee has spoken with regards to Ali Hassan AL-Halabi with detail years before these refutations of Shaykh Ahmad Bazmool and Shaykh Rabee’. Shaykh Fawzaan has spoken regarding this individual long time back. Return it to them.there is no need for looking at the refutation of Shaykh Ahmad Bazmool.
Not to sound arrogant about it, but may Allah reward and bless you, brother Ahmad, I think I know what Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin wrote in Rifqan Ahl as-Sunnah, after all, I did translate it into English.
As for the Permanent Committee speaking about Shaikh Ali Hasan, what they issued verdicts for were two of his books (namely Saihah Nadhir and at-Tahdhir min Fitnah at-Takfir). Their verdicts were not on Shaikh Ali Hasan himself. There’s quite a difference. There’s also the fact that scholars more knowledgeable than the ones who signed those verdicts disapproved of the verdicts, including Shaikh Ibn ‘Uthaimin. Add to this the fact that Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin, himself, advised (in Rifqan Ahl as-Sunnah‘s second edition no less) to benefit from Shaikh Ali Hasan and his colleagues in Jordan, I think I will ignore what you say about him.
At least you got that part right.
I suppose judging from your somehow believing that the verdict of the Lajna supports the new tirade by sheik rabee’ ;that you don’t read much…at least not with understanding.
If you did, you’ll realise that the same thing that the lajna “has spoken with regards to Ali Hassan AL-Halabi with detail” about applies directly to sheik rabee’ and others from his party too.
While what Sheik Rabee’ et al have to say about ali hasan applies to many members of the lajna and the present mufti himself.
Not saying that shaykh ali hasan is right in both instances…but your statement “has spoken regarding this individual long time back.” as if to say “this is the position of all of the ‘ulamaa” is total rubbish.
In case you aren’t aware, Shaykh Fawzaan and the Shuyookh of the lajna aren’t too fond of Shaykh Rabee’ and his band either. Ask Dawood Adeeb, he’ll tell you (if he hasn’t already sworn an oath of secrecy to his sheik).
RG’s edit: Formatting at request of poster (added the <blockquote> </blockquote> tags).
Shaikh Ali Hasan al-Halabi’s “An Open Letter To the Esteemed Shaikh Rabi’ bin Hadi” (Arabic).
RG’s edit: Replaced the Arabic article with a link to where the shaikh originally posted it.
Assalaamu ‘alaikum, brother Rasheed. err..why is that my last comment not moderated?
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah.
Your last comment was moderated. It was unapproved and put in the trash.
Have a nice Ramadan, bro. May Allah accept from you and I.
Forgive me, may I know why?
To be quite frank, although there are things I can say about your assessments of the comments about Shaikh Ali Hasan that have been conveyed from Shaikhs al-Fawzan and Ghudayan as well as the comments themselves, I simply don’t wish to get into it with you right now. Add to that the fact that your comment has little to do with the topic of the blog post, and I found it enough of a reason to trash your comment. Sorry, nothing personal.
Hmm.. seems like SP has done it again:
“Who is Ali Hasan al-Halabi?”
http://www.salafitalk.net/st/viewmessages.cfm?Forum=33&Topic=11387
Of course, they’re only following suit to his excellency, Shaikh Rabi’, who hereticated Shaikh Ali Hasan just a few weeks ago. It never ceases to amaze me to see how easy these guys find it to lie and twist things, even during Ramadan.
Even better, i came across the following quote on Facebook:
Shaykh Ubayd ibn `Abdillaah al-Jaabiree said:”If a scholar sees that his students or the people of his country have left off the knowledge of `Aqeedah, `Ibaadah (worship), and Mu`aamalah (dealings between people) and they turned to refutations, then of course he would warn them and say: “Do not busy yourselves with refutations.””
Reference: Audio Tape: Al Hadul Faasil/4th question
There’s also the quote I translated here. As we know, time and time again, history has a way of repeating itself (another example is the controversy that occurred between Imams al-Bukhari and adh-Dhuhli, which has repeated itself several times in different forms between various scholars of our day).
Reading this gives me the reassurance and tranquility when i was being refuted continuously about a month ago, whereby some brothers have been harping on my supposed “flaws” and “errors in manhaj”.
One brother even wanted to meet up with me to “enquire and rectify” my manhaj. And i was like, “who do you think you are to think you can rectify other’s manhaj? You’re just starting to learn Usool al-Fiqh and Mustalah al-Hadeeth and you’re an Aalim in Jarh wa Ta’deel already?” LOL
Funny thing, he wanted to ask a brother along to meet me, not knowing that the brother is my long time friend.
Anyway, the controversy between Imams al-Bukhari and adh-Dhuhli is with regards to the Qur’an being a creation right? I happened to watch a vcd on it. It showed Imam Ahmad being captured in front of Imam al-Bukhari with regards to the issue. Perhaps you can verify, as I am not sure when both Imam al-Bukhari and Imam Ahmad met.
I haven’t read all of Ibn Hajar’s biography of al-Bukhari so I’m not sure, but I’m assuming that the controversy the occurred between he and adh-Dhuhli took place after Imam Ahmad’s death as Ibn Hajar mentions it near the end of his biography. I’ll try to check when I get home later or something, insha’allah.
” Shaikh Rabi’, who hereticated Shaikh Ali Hasan just a few weeks ago”
What did Shaykh Rabi mention about Shaykh Ali Hasan?
Shaikh Rabi’, as conveyed by some of the students of knowledge on the Sahab forum, seems to think that “If Ali al-Halabi is not a heretic, then there isn’t a heretic to be found on the face of the earth.” Of course, the “lovely” brothers at Sunnah Publishing have already translated a few of the posts and sent it out on their mailing list over a week ago, but for the most part, I haven’t seen it publicized that much on their associate sites (e.g., SalafiTalk, TROID, SPubs, etc.) yet.
Bro, could you please translate it?
Read the below article. A true example of a person of knowledge, giving real insight with examples. Look at the understanding given to this aalim compared to these ghulaat ‘imams’ of jarh wa tadeel. You really have to be blind to not appreciate the difference!
Advice to those who seek criticisms on Imam Abu Haneefah and then rule him to be misguided without precedence from the Scholars
From the excellent article, “How to Read the Books of the People of Knowledge” by Shaykh Sâlih âl-ush Shaykh
Translated by Hisham Assing
Read the complete article at
http://www.qsep.com/modules.php?name=ilm&d_op=article&sid=206
Every discipline has its language
A student of knowledge, whenever reading the books of the people of knowledge, must try to understand the matters therein according to the language of the people of knowledge. For every discipline has its Language. For example, the one who reads the fatwa of Shaikh Al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyyah (May Allah have mercy upon him) in a similar manner that he reads and understands a newspaper or a magazine, such a person will indeed make many mistakes in his understanding of the intent of Shaikh Al-Islâm words.
This is because the people of knowledge, regardless of the different eras that they lived in, they wrote the knowledge according to the language of that particular branch of knowledge, and they did not write it based on the colloquial dialect that was commonly spoken in their times. This was done so that the knowledge can be continuously passed on; thus the first will understand it just as the last. Therefore, each branch of knowledge has its own terminology and language that must be understood within the repository context that embodies the language.
For the language is the reservoir for the meaning of the words. Hence, it is not behooving that an individual understands what he reads based on notions acquired from the past, because if he understands the works of the scholars on this basis, his understanding will differ with what they intended. Thus, the student of knowledge – whether he teaches or studies, should strive to express knowledge-based matters in accordance with the language of its people.
Because if he discusses knowledge-based matters contrary to the language of its people, neither will he be fully connecting with those who preceded him, nor will he fully obtain what is ahead of him. The previously mentioned points were general guidelines (on what to look for and pay attention to when reading the books of the scholars), now we will go to the specifics.
Al Aqîdah, how does one read the books of creed?
Aqîdah is based upon clarity, and it is the explanation of the pillars of imân.
“The Messenger (Muhammad SAW) believes in what has been sent down to him from his Lord, and (so do) the believers. Each one believes in Allâh, His Angels, His Books, and His Messengers.” (Al-Baqarah: 285)
Therefore, the pillars of imân are six easy pillars that the fitrah naturally accepts. However, when misconceptions became rampant in this regard, the people of knowledge began to write books of aqîdah.
The books of aqîdah written by the salaf can be divided into two categories:
1. Books that discussed the issue of aqîdah in a general form, and
2. Books that discussed issues of aqîdah in a detailed manner.
Some students of knowledge think that is more beneficial to read the detailed books of aqîdah (before the general ones). Thus, they go directly to the “Fatawa” of Ibn Taymiyyah, they immediately read “Al-Imân” by Ibn Manda or his other book “At-Tawhîd”, they go directly to “As-Sharî’ah” by Al-Ajuri, or Al-Lilaakaî’s book, and so forth. There is no doubt that these books give a firm grounding in the madhab of the salaf.
However the madhab of the salaf and their statements are dispersed whereby the early scholars (al mutaqademîn) did not write their books in a clear, organized, structured manner. Hence, the later generation of scholars from the people of the sunnah like Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Qudâmah and others like them, came after and summarized these books and matters of aqîdah. Therefore, the path to the detailed books of aqîdah is to understand the abridged books of aqîdah like “Al-Wâsitiyah” and “Al-Hamawiyyah” By Shaikh Al-Islâm, “Lumatil i’tiqâd” by Ibn Qudâmah, and so on.
Thus, if one has a competent understanding of these books, one can refer to the books of the early scholars based on three approaches:
The first approach is wherein one refers the detailed books after having studied an issue of aqîdah in the abridged versions. For example, one comes across the issue of imân in aqîdah, is imân a statement, belief and action, or is it just a statement and belief without action? This is a very, well-known matter of disagreement between the people of hadîth and the murji’ah of the fuqahah.
The abridged books of aqîdah will give a glimpse into the differences regarding this matter, but if one wants the specifics, he has to go the detailed books. However, before going to the books of the early scholars, one should be proficient in the books of the later generation of scholars. This is because the books of the early scholars are very profound.
So if a person reads the books of the early scholars without being aware of the principles that the later generation of scholars laid down regarding aqîdah, he will indeed have huge deficiencies in his understanding of the methodology and aqîdah of ahlu’sunnah.
For example, what is reported in some of the books of ahlu’sunnah about Al Imam Abu Hanifah, may Allah have mercy upon him and elevate his level in jannah. If a person reads such books of the early scholars, he would find that they mentioned things about this imam the later generation of scholars did not mention. Rather, they abandoned and avoided such matters altogether .
Hence, one does not see in the works of Shaikh Al-Islâm Ibn Taymiyyah such an unfavorable mention of Al-Imam Abu Hanifah (may Allah have mercy upon him). In spite of the fact that the books of the early scholars mention that he did this, he did that… and so forth. They abandoned such issues because it was a matter that had its respective time and place.
Thus, Shaikh Al-Islâm wrote ” Raf al malâm fî a’imamtul a’lâm ” (Exonerating the Great Scholars from Blame), and from amongst them he defended Al-Imam Abu Hanifah, notwithstanding the fact that his statement (Abu Hanifah) regarding imân is well known. However, as it has been said regarding his honor, one should not hold these matters against him.
Were a person to read the books of the early scholars before that of the later generation of them, there will be deficiencies in his understanding of their works. Where do these deficiencies originate? These deficiencies originate from the fact that if a person is not aware of the particular environment that the statements of the salaf were made in, he will fail to properly understand their statements. This means a person must be aware of the circumstances of that particular time, such as the statements of the salaf, the schools of thought, the fitnah, and so forth.
Hence, for example, when As Shaikh Abdullah Ibn Hasan (may Allah have mercy upon him) and those mashâyikh (plural of shaikh) from Makkah who were with, decided to print ” Kitâb As Sunnah ” by Abdullah, son of imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy upon him), they did not see any problem in eliminating a complete chapter related to Abu Hanifah and his followers.
This was done to bring about a shariah benefit that agrees with the methodology of ahlu-sunnah wal jama’ah, hence they took out a complete chapter containing criticisms about Abu Hanifah and his followers. Is this removal considered failing to fulfill the trust, as some claim? Absolutely not, to the contrary, this is actually fulfilling the trust. This is because the trust we are required to fulfill is not the obligation of complete acceptance of what are in these books. Indeed, the real duty is to strive to so that the ummah will remain united in its aqîdah and brotherly love. So if the relevance those statements disappeared in time, then repeating them serves not benefit for the religion. And no doubt this is a very important point to comprehend.
Some of the statements of the salaf regarding the innovators and the people of desires have its circumstantial relevance during the early period of Islâm, and these statements may not be applicable in our times. However, you find some people taking these general statements and applying them to a condition that differs with the environment those statements were applicable in. But if they were to see the statements of the great imams and the foremost scholars from ahlus-sunnah, they would realize that they contradict these scholars in their application (of their statements).
This point was brought up just to emphasize the importance of reading and having a proper understanding of the books of aqîdah by the later generation of scholars from ahlu‘sunnah before delving into the books of the earlier ones. For immersion into the books (aqîdah) of the salaf, without knowing the principles the later scholars of ahlu‘sunnah laid down, will result in a defective understanding of the methodology of the salaf. And there are many examples of this that might need a longer time to explain.
Masha-Allah, it clearly reflects the words of an Aalim..
asalamu alaikum
im like about a year late in reply subhanallah
haven’t you ever seen the more extensive benefit than merely constricting yourself to just the “clear” sites, athaar forum being one of them.
each forum has their issue, but the one thats pushing out the most fadheela as I see it would be the Multaqa ahlal-hadeeth. Of course, I don’t subscribe to the mutaqadimeen/muta’akhireen polemics, but for the most part that is absent in the english side and has more relevance to the arabic side due to the high volume of ulema and students in the arabic section
the best factor of the forum being that
1. it is actually addressing more relevant matters
2. when we deal with ahlul-bid’a, it is actually the ahlul-bid’a, the zanaaqidah, and not the stupid madkhalis/hizbi fanatical tirades that happen on most of the english sites.
@Aboo Yoosuf
there are more salafi translations than the mere salafimanhaj or the spubs network.
http://www.almuflihoon.com/
who by the way just recently translated the entire creed of Abu Hasan al-Ash’ari along iwth other aspects from Alaamah Hamaad al-Ansaaree
likewise
http://www.moj.gov.sa/adl/ENG/supervision.aspx
which is an actual academic site based on actual research of senior shiyookh, specialized in the shariah who elucidate on usool, qawaa’id al-Fiqhiyyah (legal maxims) in detail through the traditionalists (salafi) method of the fuqaha.
anyways, I hope and pray that Allah allow us here to be able to reap the rewards of their fast
asalamu alaikum warahmat
Where can I get an English translation?
I don’t think there’s an English translation available at the moment.
Bro. Rasheed, what you think of Shaykh Ali Halabi signing the so-called Common Word bayan, Abdul-Aziz ar-Rayyis, whose refutations are published at Salafimanhaj, and Shaykh Al-Albani’s attack on the Saudi government?:
as-Salam ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah, Abu Umar. Welcome to my blog.
I’m not familiar with this “Common Word bayan” you speak of. And if the video you posted is supposed to contain an “attack” on the Saudi government, I didn’t hear it.
Wa alaykum as-salaam
It’s a bayaan issued by the Sufi, Prince Ghazi(who also backs Nuh Keller) of Jordan, to dialogue upon false principles(contrary to Islaam) with the Christians and signed by many Ash’ari, Sufi, and modernist shuyookh. They also issued a bayaan wishing the Christians, “Merry Christmas”!
[dead link removed]
As for the tape, it is clear that Albani is condemning the Saudi government. Who else would he be condemning?:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/f18/gift-athariyyah-madkhalis-albani-attacking-saudi-government-37892/
Also, what do you think of Abdul-Aziz ar-Rayyis and his “refutations”, which are just as bad as Rabee al-Madkhali and which are prominently featured at Salafimanhaj.com?
The link you gave is wrong. I did manage to find the correct site. I searched the lists of signatories (both in English and in Arabic), but wasn’t able to find Shaikh Ali Hasan’s name at all.
I know all about the disagreement Shaikh al-Albani had with the decision to allow the Allied forces to set up bases in Saudi. It was a jurisprudential issue. I don’t see what he said as an attack against the government.
I don’t read the shaikh’s stuff, so I don’t really have much to say about him or his writings.
Assalamualikum akhee Abu Umar, I fail to find your point in posting this:
“Also, what do you think of Abdul-Aziz ar-Rayyis and his “refutations”, which are just as bad as Rabee al-Madkhali and which are prominently featured at Salafimanhaj.com?”
First of all I really fail to find anything bad about the refutations of Shaykh Rabee bin Hadee Al Madkhalee (May Allah Protect him and preserve him).
Secondly, Shaykh Abdul Azeez Ar Rayyis (May Allah Protect and preserve him)is from the senior students of shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan so I believe he deseves some respect.
Thirdly, What are you trying to say about shaykh Ali Hasan Al Halabi (may Allah protect and preserve him) when you said:
“what you think of Shaykh Ali Halabi signing the so-called Common Word bayan”
???
I confused the Amman declaration with the Common Word. It seems that Rabee’s followers are condemning Halabi for this:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%8A+%D8%AD%D9%84%D8%A8%D9%8A++%D8%B9%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86&rls=com.microsoft:en-ca&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1&redir_esc=&ei=2wh8TJCmGMXhnAeQubWdCw
With all due respect, then who is Shaykh Al-Albani condemning? It’s clear he is harshly condemning the Saudi government and its policies during the Gulf War. I don’t why other shuyookh who also condemned the Saudi government are held to a different standard and are condemned as Suroori/takfiri/khariji/Qutubi. Why the double standard?
What is your opinion of the manhaj of Rayyis as his manhaj is very similar to Rabee who you have condemned?
Abdullah, my point is that Rayyis is upon the same manhaj of Rabee’ in attacking Salafi ulama and shuyookh based upon Rabee’s hawa and their difference with his manhaj. If you find nothing wrong with Rabee’s refutation, then do you agree that Shaykh al-Ma’ribi is the “greatest fitnah” of our time as Rabee has said?! Do you agree when he told Ali Halabi and Salim al-Hilali “that if you don’t drop Maghrawi, then I’ll drop you”?!
As for Rayyis and Rabee’, then I’m not interested in respecting them and their manhaj of attacking Salafi ulama and shuyookh and expelling them from Salafiyyah and where is the respect from the Madkhalis towards ulama like Hmood bin Uqla ash-Shu’aybi, Ibn Jibreen, Abdullah ibn Qu’ood, Abdullah al-Ghunaymaan, Bakr Abu Zayd, Abdul-Karim Khudayr, Abdur-Rahman al-Barrak, Safar al-Hawali, Abdullah ibn Aqil, Safwat Noor ad-Deen, Abdullah Sa’d and many others. Rayyis isn’t the only student of Shaykh Salih al-Fawzan and Fawzan’s position on Eeman is known and he has condemned one of Rayyis’s books:
http://www.buraydahcity.net/vb/showthread.php?t=180524
On the issue of the Common Word, refer to this:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showth…ight=%C8%ED%E5
Shaikh Ali Hasan has already replied to the accusations against him of supporting the concepts of freedom of religion and a human brotherhood with a couple of posts to the forum he supervises. As the administration of the site has temporarily closed the forum for the last 10 days of Ramadan, I’m not able to provide both links, but one of the two can already be found here in the comments to this blog post (i.e., “An Open Letter To the Esteemed Shaikh Rabi’ bin Hadi“). Like their accusations against Shaikh Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribi for the same thing, the accusations are false and baseless.
First, there’s a difference between criticizing a decision that was made and attacking the person or people who made the decision. You asked me about Shaikh al-Albani “attacking” the Saudi government. I didn’t hear it in the tape.
Secondly, if the supposed “Suroori/takfiri/khariji/Qutubi” are among the list of shaikhs you mentioned at the end of your comment, then perhaps you haven’t read the article I posted (in blog post you’re commenting on). If so, I suggest you read it.
First, you should be clear that while I criticize Shaikh Rabi’ for some of his actions, statements and habits (with regards to how he criticizes and attacks others), I have in no way condemned him and thrown him “off”. He is a salafi shaikh who I don’t happen to like or agree with. End of story.
As for Shaikh Abdul-Aziz ar-Rayyis, as I mentioned, “I don’t read the shaikh’s stuff, so I don’t really have much to say about him or his writings.” If that wasn’t all that clear for you, that means that I’m not too familiar with the shaikh or his writings, and thus don’t have an opinion of him one way or another.
Finally, this is the last comment I’m going to be allowing regarding these issues here. Any further comments related to them will be deleted. May Allah reward and bless you all. It’s the last 10 nights/days. You should be focusing on increasing your worship and posting comments here should be the last thing on your mind.
True Akh Rasheed. Let’s not dwell too much on the matter/issue.
I personally feel there’s a need to emphasize on the following points which are applicable to other issues as well:
1) To criticize is not to condemn. They are 2 different matters. To criticize is to disagree. Whereas to condemn is to “hate”/disapprove/disregard absolutely.
2) To disagree with a scholar/sheikh does not equate to disrespecting the scholar or, in the “Salafee context”, to “remove/drop him off the manhaj”. It is a simple matter of disagreement, difference in opinion.
I personally used to follow Sheikh al-Albani’s views closely. As I learn more, I began to disagree with the Sheikh little by little. But that does not mean I disrespect him.
I still honor the sheikh rahimahullah for his contributions to the Deen. I just couldn’t agree with him on certain matters, perhaps due to the sheikh being a muhaddith while i view the matter from the perspective of fuqahaa’.
Wallahu a’lam
Surprise surprise.
Shaykh Muhammad al-Imaam has written a book:
الإبانة عن كيفية التعامل مع الخلاف بين أهل السنة والجماعة
“Clarification on how to treat with disagreement between ahlis-sunnah wal-jamaa’ah”
jazaahu-llaahu khairaa
The book has been read and “reviewed” by Shaykh Rabee’ and a number of the yemeni mashaayikh have introduced/endorsed the book.
Funny thing is, a lot of what is in the book is the same things that Sh. Ali Hasan al-Halabee said in Manhaj as-Salaf as-Saalih and that Sh. Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribee said in “As-Siraaj al-wahhaaj bi-taS-Heeh al-minhaaj”
And some of these very issues are what the extremist disparagers have taken these two scholars (and other than them) to task for. For example issues such as:
1. The claim of “a trustworthy one informed me” when using information to disparage
2. The fact that there was, has been and always will be acceptable differing in “al-jarh wat-ta’deel”
3. The fact that it is not incumbent for a person to accept r be forced to accept the disparagement of any particular scholar except under particular conditions
4. the acceptance of the narration of the innovator (that doesn’t actively call to his innovation)
and other than that…
(forgive me because this list is ghairu muharrar to the extent that I would like, but I don’t have time for that right now)
not only that, but some of the same supporting sayings from the salaf as well as the way it is used as evidence is the same.
Nevertheless it is praised by some in a particular context and in another context it is misrepresented and the proponents castigated (if you would allow me to euphemise).
These double standards point to one of two things:
1. Lack of intellect and understanding – that would lead one to not recognise that all of the aforementioned people are actually saying the same things and laying down the same principles
2. A disease in the heart and following of hawaa – that leads one to injustice and transgression against individuals for personal vendettas.
Can anyone give me a third possibility?
Anyone interested in reading this book (in Arabic), you can find a scanned copy of the book here (PDF compressed into a RAR file). May Allah reward and bless the brother who sent it to me.
There’s a thread on the Kulalsalafiyeen forum where a brother compares statements made by Shaikh Muhammad al-Imam in his al-Ibanah to statements made by Shaikh Ali Hasan in Manhaj as-Salaf as-Salih. I’m not going to translate the posts, as I don’t really have the will or the time to do so, but the brother (Abul-Harith Basim Khalaf) states in his first post that
He then goes on to make several posts comparing the statements made by the two shaikhs in issues like “the reliable one’s information” (khabar ath-thiqah), difference of opinion in disparagement and accreditation, when (acceptance of) disparagement is made incumbent, and the explained disparagement acted upon is one that is legally convincing and satisfactory; he also mentions there are more examples to follow.
Shaykh Muhammad al-Imaam has written a book:
الإبانة عن كيفية التعامل مع الخلاف بين أهل السنة والجماعة
“Clarification on how to treat with disagreement between ahlis-sunnah wal-jamaa’ah”
Looks like shaikh Rabee did not read or review this book!
This is what is written in the book, but things may be coming to Muhammad Imaam from shaikh rabee…..
Unless, Muhammad imaam has a hand written copy of the review of shaikh Rabee, then the Mess is going to get messy
I think a more likely scenario is that Shaikh Rabi’ has read both books, praised the one written by the scholar in his good books and warned against the other written by the scholar in his dog-house. Among many other personal reasons Shaikh Rabi’ has to disparage Shaikh Ali Hasan, I don’t think it helped Shaikh Ali Hasan much that he refuted Shaikh Rabi’s statements with his own words (i.e., Shaikh Rabi’ refutes Shaikh Rabi’).
Related to what I posted a while ago regarding Shaikh Salih as-Sadlan’s words about Shaikh Adnan Ar’ur …
I was browsing around the various forums and discovered that Dar al-Hadith in Ma’rib’s site has changed URLs (here’s their new one). I found they have a new subforum specifically for balanced and just posts concerning methodological and Islamic propagational issues. They’ve got quite a few posts defending Shaikh Adnan Ar’ur, which I was quite pleased to see. For anyone interested, I think it’s worth the time to check out. You can find the subforum here.
Assalamu alaykum. I’m not into these issues, but I read (and heard) some things about ‘Adnân ‘Ar’ûr.
‘Ulama such as shaykh al-Fawzân, al-‘Abbâd (from the kibâr) and others like al-‘Ubaylân, ar-Ramadâni & mashayikh of Madeenah & others, all say not to take knowledge from him, that he has issues, ignorance, mistakes, etc.
Even shaykh Salim al-Hilali said he changes like water (in that article you translated from a recording about the fitnan). Some say “he left many of his mistakes”, but the mashâyikh don’t, as far as I know.
And I don’t really get why some people are hardcore fans of him, he is no one (compared to well-known shuyûkh). Ok, he is “a shaykh”, and a dâ’ee, and then? I know some of the ‘Ulama (Ibn Bâz & others) said good things about him, but others don’t, based upon proofs.
Not that I make al-walâ wal-barâ based upon tabdee’ of that man [unfortunately some hasty people do], I don’t care, and if he came, I wouldn’t go to listen to his lecture, etc., because I don’t care and because he isn’t a famous shaykh steadfast upon salafiyyah.
How did he become that famous anyway?
It may seem that I contradicted myself, but here’s what I meant:
he isn’t a known salafi shaykh, known to the people for his ‘ilm etc., but he is famous (at least in the west?).
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah,
Shaikh Adnan is one of Shaikh al-Albani’s students. He is salafi, regardless of what anyone says about him. I don’t know of any disparaging statements made about him by Shaikhs al-Abbad, or al-Ubailan. If you know their statements and where they can be referenced, please let me know. I’d like to see them for myself.
As for Shaikh al-Fawzan’s statements against Shaikh Adnan, I don’t pay them any mind. Shaikh al-Fawzan has been proven to be pretty nationalistic, speaking against non-Saudis harshly, but keeping silent about Saudis who’re far worse than the non-Saudis he blasts. One of the statements he made against Shaikh Adnan was that Shaikh Adnan came to Saudi as a labourer i.e., not as a scholar … as if such a thing negates any of the knowledge he had acquired from his teachers (e.g., Shaikh al-Albani).
As for all this “well known” stuff … it’s all relative. Just because he isn’t known to you doesn’t mean he isn’t known to many others. The shaikh had visited the West to call people to the Sunnah long before some of the so called “better known” salafi shaikhs ever stepped on Western soil for the first time.
And please, have some respect when referring to the shaikh–if not for his knowledge, then for the fact that he’s older than you; I find calling him “that man” extremely direspectful. Remember, you’re posting comments to my blog. I reserve the right to approve of delete posts as I see fit.
Barakallahu feek. Akhi, I didn’t mean to use harshness or kibr.
Ok, maybe “that man” is not well said, but I didn’t mean anything disrespectful with it.
I’m not of those who tries to destroy everyone who disagrees in an issue. I’m kind with my brothers :)
And I didn’t come here to make fitnah. On the contrary, I would like to see all the sides and investigate things, choose the haqq.
I don’t agree with you about what shaykh al-Fawzan said. I mean, as if he hates all ‘ajamis. “He has been proven..” – any more information about this? And I don’t believe that he is silent about “Saudis who are much worse” – because the Imam is well known and is one of the Kibar Ulama Rabbaniyun of our time, so I have husnu dhann and don’t mention his mistakes in a bad way. If we do that for ‘awam, tullab, du’at, why not for Ulama, right? I’m not accusing you of anything, but just, a reminder for us all inshaAllah, in these times of fitan.
Anyway, the words of shaykh al-Abbad are old, you probably know about it.
It’s where he says that you shouldn’t busy yourself with him etc.
No idea if he said anything after that.
Concerning shaykh al-Ubaylan, I have probably got the wrong person. There are many names, I got confused I guess.
Anyway, why do some shuyukh keep saying that he didn’t leave his mistakes etc.? Where does he live now?
Shaikh Adnan Ar’ur is not the only non-Saudi that Shaikh al-Fawzan has disrespected. He’s done the same to Shaikh Khalid al-Anbari, who is Egyptian in origin, but was a teacher at one of the Saudi unis.
As for the video you linked to with the words from Shaikh Abdul-Muhsin al-Abbad, he’s asked about a couple of supposedly “Ar’uri principles” one of which being “We correct, but we don’t disparage”. This is something Shaikh Abul-Hasan was also criticized for saying (his version being “We correct, but we do not destroy”). TROID had translated some words from both Shaikhs Abdul-Muhsin and Ubaid concerning this principle, and they both answered with exactly what was intended by Shaikh Adnan with this statement. So how is he wrong and the others right when they say pretty much the exact same thing? People always talk about having good thoughts about our scholars, but when it comes to the scholars deemed “off” by a certain group of scholars, having good thoughts gets thrown out the window and the worst possible meanings are attached to the targeted shaikh’s words. It’s been seen time and time again … with Shaikh Adnan, with Shaikh Muhammad al-Maghrawi, with Shaikh Abul-Hasan, and now with Shaikh Ali Hasan. Same old thing, again and again.
Allahu al-Musta’an..
Assalaamu ‘alaikum
Rasheed, can you please provide some backing for what you said about Shaykh Fawzan? Specifically:
Not saying that you’re necessarily wrong, but I think that something like that needs some backing…otherwise it would probably be better to remove it and the references to it, and make istighfaar.
” كفى بالمرء إثما أن يحدث بكل ما سمع ”
Other than that, have you noticed a shift toward heavy ghuluw to the rulings of shaykh fawzan حفظه الله. I’ve noticed some brothers saying: Shaykh Fazaan said kadhaa wa kadhaa almost in a way that feels as though they mean “This is the end of it, no debate and questioning after this…”
If anyone else has noticed that, what do you think is behind that? I feel that this is a somewhat new thing.
Concerning Shaykh ‘Adnaan, if you follow what he wrote closely, you’ll see that there’s little difference between what he wrote and what other than him wrote on issued to combat ghuluw (admittedly, most of those have been throw off too!). There’s actually a snippet on silsilah al-hudaa wa an-Noor where he’s reading those “false principles” to Shaykh al-Albani and he explains what he means and the Shaykh is agreeing with him, or telling him to reword etc.
Then if you follow the witch hunt that ensues after Shaykh al-Albani passed away رحمة الله عليه you see that those are the same words that are taken and read (without any explanation) to a number of shuyookh who make hukm on the apparent meaning.
There’s actually also a clip where Shaykh ‘Ar’oor called up Shaykh al-‘uthaymeen after his attackers got a hukm from the shaykh on his “baatil principles”, and he reads the principles and some of the details that were included under the headings for Shaykh al-‘Uthaymeen who agrees that they are correct.
Also, by what I’ve heard on silsilah al-hudaa wa an-Noor, it’s clear why the dogs were called out on him. If you listen to the end of tape 784 into tape 785, you hear when someone by the name abu talhah comes with shaykh Rabee’s books on Sayyid Qutb. Shaykh al-Albani’s response is very negative and embarrassing to this messenger, and ‘Adnan al-‘Ar’oor is present and plays a prominent part in the conversation. Also, in the first tape (784) Adnan is reading from Sayyid Qutb’s book and Shaykh al-Albani agrees that it is correct, then he reads from someone’s (it might be shaykh Rabee’s) ta’leeqaat on that same speech, and both Shaykh ‘Adnaan and Shaykh al-Albani are befuddled at how the person who did the ta’leeqaat interpretted the words of Qutb.
So after that, and obviously after news of this incident reached Shaykh Rabee’, it was only natural to see the witch hunt that then followed, where shaykh after shaykh was called up with some headings from Shaykh ‘Adnaan’s book Manhaj al-‘itidaal in order to get a hukm on the shaykh. That was the first domino and we all know the rest!
As for Shaykh ‘Adnaan now, his da’wah is well known in different parts of the world, especially for his efforts in the arab world against the shee’ah.
RG’s edit: Fixed formatting at poster’s request. For future references, to use the block quote tags, you use this format: <blockquote>text to be quoted</blockquote>.
Wa ‘alaikum as-Salam wa rahmatullah. Well said Abu Man. Barakallahu feek. If this is Facebook, I’d click the Like button. =)
And yes Akh Rasheed, I’d like to know the backing with regards to Shaykh Fawzan. I agree with Abu Man, I noticed it as well.
I should have qualified my statement by saying that he’s been proven to be nationalistic from what I’ve seen.
Regardless of that though, he’s not the only one guilty of it, so I don’t mean to single him out. Many other Saudi scholars (including Shaikh Rabi’) are guilty of it. Just compare their statements against non-Saudis they’ve criticized with their statements against Saudis they’ve criticized. There’s a great disparity with regards to the respect (or lack of respect) found in both. For example, have you heard any of the same types of statements Shaikh Rabi’ has blasted Shaikhs Adnan and Abul-Hasan with being directed at Shaikhs Safar al-Hawali and Salman al-Awdah? I can guarantee you that Shaikh Rabi’ has never once said either one of these two is “the filthiest and the greatest liar of those on the face of the earth,” or “more of a liar than the Christians, for the Christians have dignity (sharaf) and if the Chritian knew that he lied, he would commit suicide, because they have dignity, contrary to [him] and his followers,” and “[his] followers are more astry than Pharaoh’s soldiers,” and “if the anti-christ emerged they would truly rush behind him,” and “if a man emerged claiming divinity (uluhiyyah) and lordship (rububiyyah) with the exclusion of Allah, they would truly rush behind him,” and “[he] is more harmful than Pharaoh,” and “more astray than al-Jahm bin Safwan, ‘Amr bin ‘Ubaid, Bishr al-Marisi, Saddam Husain, and Ataturk.” (These are just about Shaikh Abul-Hasan … the statements Shaikh Rabi’ has made about Shaikh Adnan are just as bad, if not worse).
In any case, here’s the audio clip (on YouTube) of Shaikh Salih al-Fawzan saying Shaikh Adnan is not originally a scholar, but came to the Kingdom as a labourer; those who want to read it, can find a transcript here. At the 5:02 minute mark of this video, you’ll hear the following:
السائل: وما قولكم فيه، يا شيخ؟
الشيخ: هو أصلا ما هو بعالم، هو جاء للمملكة مثل الحرفي أو محترف، ثم أظهر ما عنده
The shaikh is asked, “What do you say about him (i.e., Shaikh Adnan)?” He replies saying, “Originally, he is not a scholar. He came to the Kingdom like a labourer. Then what he had became obvious.”
I’m still looking for a reference to what he said about Shaikh Khalid al-Anbari, but one thing I do remember is that it was bad enough for Shaikh Khalid to respond to him in one of his books saying “neither of us has a feather in his cap.” (For those who don’t understand the significance of that, try to find an Arab explain it, because I can’t give the saying any justice).
Just so that it’s clear, I’m not mentioning these things to attack Shaikh al-Fawzan. So don’t think that I’m trying to imply that Shaikh Salih is not to be taken from or that he’s to be disrespected, belittled, or that he’s not Salafi. It is what it is and these are the things that have occurred with our scholars. I’m not one who has delusions of scholarly utopia where everyone is perfect. If anyone has gotten anything from my blog and the articles and comments I post to it (as well as comments by friends of mine like Yusuf and some others), I hope it’s the realization that we are all human and we all have flaws and faults and that we must be just and fair when dealing with each other.
Just going to be brief.
First of all let me apologise for the typos and errors in the my messages as I don’t get time to re-read them properly.
Anyways,
I don’t think that “nationalistic” is the appropriate term to use here. I think that that difference is largely accounted for by the internal politics that they have to deal with inside of Saudi. As for Shaykh Fawzan’s statement, I’m not familiar with the use of the word حرفي but I think it’s a bit above a labourer. It might be translated as:
“Originally, he’s not a scholar, he came to the Kingdom as a craftsman, or a professional then he made apparent what was with him”
It might not necessarily convey any sense of nationalism as opposed to just stating what he knows to be the facts…and of course he can be a little more loose with what he says because it’s not someone who he’s going to meet at the next Lajnah meeting. (Interestingly on that point I heard that Shaykh ‘Abdullaah Mutlaq is now on the lajnah ad-daa’imah)
As far as Shaykh Rabee’ is concerned it’s most definitely issues of internal politics…not to mention that the shaykh et al run the risk of being sentenced to a whipping for slander (like one of his proteges usaamah ‘utaybi was for accusing Shaykh Duwaish – I believe – of being with al-Qaa’edah….or something like that)
In shaa Allaah, I’ll post some links to the audios that I referred to above, when I get time. Or if someone can beat me to it, I’ll be more than happy.
al-Mawrid’s got harafi as meaning “artisan, craftsman, handicraftsman, artificer, workman”, pretty much all synonyms of “labourer”. When you think of craftsmen, you think of carpenters, plumbers, steelworkers, etc. Same thing as far as I’m concerned. Regardless, he’s using it as a point of criticism and a reason for why knowledge shouldn’t be taken from Shaikh Adnan … he’s not really a scholar, he’s just a “craftsman” (or whatever other translation or interpretation you find more fitting). So what? Shaikh al-Albani was a watch repairman. Shaikh Hisham al-Arif is an accountant. Many of the Egyptian shaikhs have medical backgrounds. In the end, none of this stuff is of any relevance when it comes to whatever Islamic knowledge these scholars possess. To me, stating things like this are merely attempted put downs, especially when they come from people who have lived and breathed Islamic academics their whole lives and make livings as fulltime scholars. This is made even more evident when the particular scholar we’re talking about now calls the one he’s criticizing “ignorant”.
Again, I don’t mean to say that Shaikh Salih shouldn’t be taken from or to come across as if I’m belittling him. On the contrary, I hold him in high esteem for and with respect to his knowledge and position on the Permanent Committee (I just don’t particularly like him too much on a personal level). I try to give the benefit of the doubt when I can, but in cases like this, which are pretty blatant in my eyes, I just can’t and will call a spade a spade when I see it.
The below words should be written in GOLD. According to this statement of the shaykh, he would definitely be on the Shaykh Ali Hasan side of the fence in the current fitnah.
From the excellent article, “How to Read the Books of the People of Knowledge” by Shaykh Sâlih âl-ush Shaykh
Translated by Hisham Assing
Read the complete article at http://www.qsep.com/
Were a person to read the books of the early scholars before that of the later generation of them, there will be deficiencies in his understanding of their works. Where do these deficiencies originate? These deficiencies originate from the fact that if a person is not aware of the particular environment that the statements of the salaf were made in, he will fail to properly understand their statements. This means a person must be aware of the circumstances of that particular time, such as the statements of the salaf, the schools of thought, the fitnah, and so forth.
Hence, for example, when As Shaikh Abdullah Ibn Hasan (may Allah have mercy upon him) and those mashâyikh (plural of shaikh) from Makkah who were with, decided to print ” Kitâb As Sunnah ” by Abdullah, son of imam Ahmad (may Allah have mercy upon him), they did not see any problem in eliminating a complete chapter related to Abu Hanifah and his followers.
This was done to bring about a shariah benefit that agrees with the methodology of ahlu-sunnah wal jama’ah, hence they took out a complete chapter containing criticisms about Abu Hanifah and his followers. Is this removal considered failing to fulfill the trust, as some claim? Absolutely not, to the contrary, this is actually fulfilling the trust. This is because the trust we are required to fulfill is not the obligation of complete acceptance of what are in these books. Indeed, the real duty is to strive to so that the ummah will remain united in its aqîdah and brotherly love. So if the relevance those statements disappeared in time, then repeating them serves not benefit for the religion. And no doubt this is a very important point to comprehend.
Some of the statements of the salaf regarding the innovators and the people of desires have its circumstantial relevance during the early period of Islâm, and these statements may not be applicable in our times. However, you find some people taking these general statements and applying them to a condition that differs with the environment those statements were applicable in. But if they were to see the statements of the great imams and the foremost scholars from ahlus-sunnah, they would realize that they contradict these scholars in their application (of their statements).
mashaa Allah, i think the blog posts and comments are getting to the point that they should be placed on a web forum or something so that more people are aware of the content. there are a lot of benefits that have been discussed and even if not simply for the reader to see that there are people of the sunnah, “salafees”, who actually look and discussed these topics with sense & understanding. what you think about starting another forum, something that is knowledge based where actual discussion can take place…minus the foolishness that is found on many forums today?
After being involved with a few forums (i.e, as either an admin or a moderator), I can honestly say I wouldn’t want to be part of any administrative or moderating team; it’s just way too much work, bro. Add to this the fact that I’ve only become more jaded about the situation we find ourselves and our call in since originally writing this article and I don’t think it would do much good in starting yet another discussion forum.
People just don’t seem to get it, bro. People just don’t seem to learn from past mistakes and errors.
assalamualaikum brothers,
maybe someone can answer my request inshaAllah.
I want to know the list of major scholars that endorsed the label “salafi” for ahlus-sunnah, and the list of those that were neutral about it, and those scholars from ahlus-sunnah that opposed this label, and said it’s not permissible to use this term for ahlus-sunnah.
I know sh. Albani was for it. Can someone please provide a list, and who used it first, and also which companion used the term ahlus-sunnah, then how it became ahlus-sunnah wal-jama’ah
Brother Yousuf, Rasheed…? anyone else who wants to contribute to this
jazakallahukhayran
Wa ‘alaikum assalaam.
Apologies in advance bro abdulhamid, but what do expect to attain from such a compilation?
Assalamualaikum Akhee Abdulhamid. I do not know of any scholar of ahl as sunnah that opposes the use of the word salafi. Here is a list of a couple:
1. Shaykh alee Al Halabee :)
2. Mashhoor Hasan Salman
3. Muhammad Musa Nasr
3. Rabee bin Haadee Al Madkhalee
5. Muhammad bin Haadee Al Madkhalee
6. Zayd bin Haadee Al Madkhalee
7. Saleh Al Fowzaan
8. Saleh Aal Ash Shaykh
9. Shaykh Bakr Abu zayd (he has a whole chapter dedicated to being salafi in his book hilyah taalib al ilm)
10. salaeem Al Hilalee
11. Usamah Al qoosee
12. Falah bin Ismaeel Al Mandakar
13. Saalim At Taweel
and others. on Salafimanhaj.com there is a wonderful refutation of yusuf estes concerning the use of the word salafi.
Abu Man, I was wondering the same thing, given that labelling (key word) one’s self “salafi” is a matter of deliberation (ijtihad)–as opposed to being salafi.
Abdullah, you’ll find varying answers when these types of questions are posed to scholars, some saying there is no problem with it, others saying that it’s a form of self praise (Shaikh Salih al-Fawzan being one scholar, if I’m not mistaken, who’s expressed the latter, i.e., that it’s self praise).
This is another issue, as we know very well, that is an important condition for one to enter to ‘realm of salafiyyah.’ I remember, wa ilaaAllaahil Mushtakaa, brothers being coerced into this or else, you were not considered salafee… or at least foxed into thinking that it is compulsory (by concensus or something)… the really important thing (like epic importance here) is what Rasheed said….BE SALAFEE.
When you really consider it, what’s in a name if it not actualised? Just as we would say ‘hey, he’s just a muslim by name, he doesn’t practise’, similarly we can look at this. He’s just salafee by name? Shaykh Saalih Al Fawzaan mentioned (in some kalaam I read from him) that the salafee manhaj is about seeking knowledge and acting upon that…and the names/titles without actualising it, doesn’t benefit at all. He actually spoke about a group of people who calls themselves ‘salafees’ yet they make takfeer, tabdee’ and tafseeq…’This is not the manhaj of the salaf yaa akhee’ he said. (who is he referring to here? go figure…Nas’allaahal ‘Aafiyah was Salaamah)
Shaykhul Islaam’s statement ‘Laa ‘aybaa ‘ala man adhhara manhajas salaf…’ (There is no blame on the one professes the manhaj of the salaf…to the end) is often quoted…but is he (rahimahullah) relating a concensus that labelling with salafiyyah is waajib or that it is to be accepted and not rejected? I’m not sure what it means exactly. Qubool or Iltizaam?
Alot of our brothers would quickly say that they’re salafee and on the manhaj, but they don’t really have a clue as to what’s going on…as the original article pointed out, all they may know is positions (the ‘salafi positions’) but what really makes one salafee is the approach to the texts and the way in understanding them…not necessarily actual positions themselves.
Anyway, I think I’m being redundant. All apologies. Baarakallaahu feekum yaa ikhwaan
Akhi Abu-man? I believe it’d be beneficial, as there’s many people who have misconceptions/misunderstandings regarding this label. Most seem to think that the contemporary scholars like sh. albani invented it. On top of that I had a discussion with a brother who is from ahlussunnah, but was sternly against this term. A good research/compilation would be pretty beneficial, if there isnt one already.
Akhi abdullah. I personally don’t have a problem with it, but i was interested in a compilation, a bit of background on the term, and how it came to be used. Also I wanted to know from the major scholars’ perspective, not the scholars you mentioned. And I heard that sh. Ghynayman opposed all labels, including ‘salafi’ thats something I wanted to find more out.
Br. rasheed, i think I heard that clip wherein sh. fawzan said its a form of self praise, but in other places he seems to affirm this label. I guess it comes down to what br. bin shareef said, claiming it, and actualizing it, of course. what benefit would the label give a person if they contradict this manhaj anyway.
may allah make us from the true followers of the sunnah, on the understanding of the sahabah ridwanullahi alaihim.
Brother abdulhamid, there are a couple of books translated into English regarding this issue, if I’m not mistaken, one of which is written by Shaikh Salim al-Hilali. The English in it is pretty bad, but it should suffice in terms of references for the evidences. There
isshould also be a lecture floating around the net somewhere given by Abu Usamah at-Thahabi regarding the usage of the word ‘salaf’ and it’s legitimacy. From the sound of the talk, it sounds like he based it off of Shaikh Salim’s book, and Allah is more knowledgeable. Unfortunately, I don’t remember the title of the lecture as I heard it in my early days of becoming Muslim.No offence, but doesn’t that list that Abdullah posted look just like those lists that the “damaaj” crowd post when listing those who completely opposed voting? I.e. Shaykh Muqbil and about ten of his students?
Of course barring a few, but some of those were very clear about the difference between being salafi and just using the name. Not to mention there’s also a big difference between saying that it is obligatory to use the name and saying that there’s nothing against using it generally.
I don’t know if you guys are following Shaykh at-taibaawi’s rudood on Shaykh Rabee’ (who finally wrote some stuff after a long hiatus…looks like he’s dug his own grave غفر الله لنا وله)
These rudood from Sh. at-taybaiwi TOTALLY ANNIHILATES Sh. Rabee’s entire innovated manhaj and tears it out from the roots.
This could be the end.
After this, it’s either you read that refutation and accept, or we leave you to be as we do with the rest of ahlil-bid’ah.
Assalamualaikum Akhee أبو من؟ , Are you saying that Shaykh Rabee Hafidhahullah is from Ahl Al Bidah? I did not really understand.
P.S. Are Shaykh Mukhtar’s refutations on Kulalsalafiyeen.com ?
May Allah Guide all of us to what pleases him Subhanahu Wa Ta’laa
Shaikh Mukhtar Taibawi usually posts his refutations to Kulalsalafiyeen’s forum, so you should be able to find them all there in the general discussion forum. You might be able to find them on his own site (taibaoui.com) as well.
Jazakumullahu Khayran Brother Rasheed, i dont Know if you saw but he does have a reccomendation from Shaykh Rabee : ) He called him “A Esteemed Salafee brother”
–
فلقد يسر الله لي أن أقرأ ما كتبه الأخ السلفي الفاضل/ مختار الأخضر طيباوي
Personally, I don’t put too much weight into recommendations from shaikhs these days. I’m more likely to look into a particular scholar’s works based on recommendations from my friends. I haven’t really had the pleasure of reading Shaikh Mukhtar’s writings (as I haven’t really sat down to read them), but my friends say his stuff is usually pretty good.
May Allah reward and bless the shaikh for his efforts and guide us all to what pleases Him.
salam aleykum
have you seen this article yet
http://muslimmatters.org/2011/03/21/my-reflections-on-the-new-york-times-article/
do you think it an example of salafi burnout
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam, tuwaylib.
Yeah, I finished reading it (and before it, the NYTimes piece on him) last night. I haven’t really had the chance to sit down and formulate my thoughts on all of it; to be quite honest though, I’m quite indifferent to most things “Yasir Qadhi”. One thing I will say though, is that I definitely don’t think this is a case of “Salafi burnout”. Although I don’t consider myself to be a salafi burnout (as I mentioned in my article in this post), I’d say my case is closer to being a burnout situation than Yasir’s. I think, and this is pure speculation, that he’s either genuinely changing his direction or he’s putting on a show to appease both sides (which is what I kind of got a tiny sense of after reading the NYT piece on him); only Allah knows for sure.
Salam ‘alaik. Rasheed, perhaps you’ve seen my post on Facebook. and I quote from Yasir Qadhi:
“while i agree with the salafis on most theological points, the actual fact of the matter is that i’ve departed from the movement on many matters…”
I personally can relate to his words and agree with him. This is my personal take, that if i were to make such a statement, i’d
mean:
“Yes, i’m firmly grounded upon Salafiyyah but i do not restrict myself to the scholars of Saudi Arabia”
this can be deduced from his words whereby he doesnt quite agree with taking from the Senior Scholars in all matters of Deen. And i’d agree. Certain matters have to be contextualized; America is America, Saudi is Saudi. Due to this, certain matters would require a more contextualized approach and answer.
he also states about stepping away from the Salafi label. Cos with lots of fitnah and gimmick going on surrounding the label,it’d defonitely be of a bigger maslahah to avoid the label. As he himslef explained his position with regards to label
so to me, personally, it is not necessarily about being a Salafi burnout. It’s about to stop having the Utopic mindset of being Salafi (about I’m right and you’re wrong, i’m upon the sunnah and you’re not, etc) and to step on reality, living in reality, living Islam and finding the answers to our local and contextual problems and issues.
Wallahu a’lam. just my 2 cents worth, being a Muslim in Singapore.
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Farhan.
I don’t have the time to reply in full at the moment. Insha’allah, when I get home from work, I’ll try to see if I can sit down and write something more substantial than this. I will say for now though, that your post on Facebook is how I found Yasir’s response article. I’ll also say that there’s quite a difference between the two quotes you mentioned in your comment (i.e., the one from Yasir and your rewording of it). I’ll explain when I post again later, Allah willing.
@ Mohamed
As-salamu alaykum
You said: “…this can be deduced from his words whereby he doesnt quite agree with taking from the Senior Scholars in all matters of Deen. And i’d agree. Certain matters have to be contextualized; America is America, Saudi is Saudi. Due to this, certain matters would require a more contextualized approach and answer.”
Although I can agree to the fact that some of the Ulama in the Middle-East do not understand our context here in the West I also think it is a dangerous thing for likes of Yasir Qadhi and other students like him to feel that they can dispense with the Ulama under the guise that they do not understand our context. Whilst such a guise may well be true to some extent they do however understand Islam, and they understand quite well in fact, a great deal more than the Western students. Therefore, there should be mutual cooperation between the students in the West and the Ulama and the students should return the affairs, the more complicated ones in particular to the Ulama whilst explaining our context until the Ulama understand it and then give rulings accordingly.
And Allah knows best!
Sorry for not posting up earlier, but after I got home from work yesterday, I was pretty knackered (as my wife would say) and just wanted to veg out.
In any case, back to what I mentioned above regarding the difference between what Yasir said in the statement you quoted and your personal take on it.
In similar fashion to many Western academics, Yasir refers to Salafism as a “movement” (i.e., “a diffusely organized or heterogeneous group of people or organizations tending toward or favoring a generalized common goal” (ref)). While this is an accurate description of Salafism from certain aspects, Salafis like you and I commonly refer to Salafism as a methodology (i.e., a set of methods and procedures we use with regards to all things religious, just as I’ve tried to show in the article I wrote for this post). I don’t doubt that you know and understand this well, Allah willing.
With regards to Salafism being a “movement”, this refers more to the active propagation of our methodology, our calling or inviting others to follow the way of the “Salaf” than it does the actual set of procedures and methods we use to understand and practice our religion. Taking Yasir’s words at face value, he’s saying that he’s “departed from the movement on many matters”, which I take to mean what many Salafis have come to be known for (whether it be deserved or not): isolationism, intolerance, bigotry, and excessive criticism of others (including others Salafis).
I find it funny how Yasir praises the NYT journalist for illustrating that “Islam is not one monolithic movement, but rather a spectrum of movements,” yet seemingly paints Salafism (and Salafis) in that exact manner, i.e., that Salafism is one monolithic movement. Back when I first read The Anatomy of the Salafi Movement (PDF) by Quintan Wiktorowicz, I scoffed at his categorization of Salafis and Salafism, but as time went on and I began to see and understand just what Salafism is, I began to see some legitimacy to his categorizations.
Salafism, and Islam to a larger extent, as I mentioned in my article, is a framework with room for differences. While the foundations are agreed upon, there are other aspects that are up for interpretation, disagreement, and differing. So long as the various interpretations, disagreements and differings fall within the framework, it’s viewed and accepted as a valid opinion. As such, you find some Salafis leaning to politics, while you find others shying away from it. You find some Salafis really intolerant of other views (regardless of who holds them, Salafi or not), while you find others a bit more tolerant and open to differences (do not read that as validation and legitimization of views that fall outside the framework–there’s quite a difference); I can go on (and this isn’t even touching on the issue of the application and understanding of our core foundations and principles!).
There are other thoughts I have on Yasir’s response as well as the NYT piece, but I guess I’ll wait for another time to share those (if I do at all).
@Rasheed: na’am akhi, i agree with you. I esp agree with the point about “what Salafi came to be known about”, which is particularly what i agree with Yasir Qadhi and is precisely the problem we are facing in Singapore, with the Salafis practicing exclusivity, which in itself dampens da’wah efforts to return to the Sunnah, esp with the overwhelming Sufi influence here.
And it becomes a bigger problem when these “exclusive Salafis” start to question the manhaj of Madeenah grads who choose not to be exclusive.
I always try to explain to these brothers that some of the Madeenah grads who choose not to be exclusive, they learn from the scholars in Madeenah too and strive to practice and implement what they have learnt appropriately. I tell them, how can we, meagre students who still struggle in grasping Arabic, judge the Madeenah grads who seem to differ with us, when they learnt under the scholars while we dont, while we only study under a few grads who choose to be exclusive?
I try to advice these brothers, come on, we need to be more open and tolerant of differences like you pointed out, knowing where there is room for differences and where there cant be room for differences.
However, i end up being declared as “no longer Salafi”. And the grads whom they study under start to have doubts of me, based on stories and assumptions that they make of me.
Wallahul Musta’an. Just my 2 cents worth, my take on Yasir Qadhi’s words and how i see it.
shaykh Salih as-Suhaymee sounds off…kinda. a brother on FB recently directed me towards some newly posted speech of shaykh as-Suhaymee regarding the issue of boycotting as it specifically relates to shaykh Abul-Hasan al-Ma’rabi. i would say i’m awaiting to see how soon he is also kicked off the list, but i really don’t give a crap these days to be honest. anyways, it is interesting to see how the shaykh totally disagrees with the position of these people, yet at the same time he saves face and credibility with them by saying he believes Abul-Hasan to be a heretic. nevertheless, his statement is a blow to those who claim salafiyyah, yet as he states they are ignoramuses and fools.
“Testing people and boycotting them because of Abul-Hasan al-Ma’ribi” by Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee
RG’s edit: Article removed and replaced by a link to the article’s original source to save on space. The large amount of comments to this post already make it a tremendously long read. Sorry, bro.
no problem on the editing. I was actually thnking to just post the link as well. this page actullay needs a table of contents, lol.
does it matter anymore? this stuff is becoming pretty pathetic to be honest… and now it seems that Bazmool is warning against ar-rays as well. masha’Allah
To be frank, this continuing nonsense has got me very uninterested in much of the criticisms scholars make about other scholars. Pathetic doesn’t even come close to describing the situation we find ourselves in accurately.
One brother sent me Shaikh as-Suhaimi’s statement and at the beginning of his email, he said, “Imagine if this advice had been out and adhered to in the early days of this fitnah. Unfortunately it seems too late the major damage has already been done, but still adhering to this advice even now would bring some benefit.” I couldn’t help but laugh. Scholars with more clout and who are more reputable than as-Suhaimi were telling us from the very beginning of the turmoil surrounding Shaikh Abul-Hasan that we should ignore it and that imposing our opinions on others was a heresy in and of itself; that was around decade ago! Very few people listened back then and I don’t expect it to be any different now.
asalamu alaikum
I don’t see why any of you keep getting overly involved in nonsensical shaqsiyyah as if discussing about a shaykh has some actual relevance. And then coupled with speaking on the subject as if it matters or elucidating on the nature of hizbiyyah matters.
do any of you know the 12 principles of ‘itisaam?
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Ali.
I’m not quite sure who you’re addressing with your comment, but the last few brothers to comment, including myself, don’t exatly fit the description of “getting overly involved in nonsensical shaqsiyyah”. To quite honest, coming from you, with your past endeavours, criticism like that is quite ironic.
walaykum salam
my past endeavors had to deal with real heretics, not the sunni brother who happened to be declared off the manhaj by whoever.
Moreover, Im speaking of “whoever” partook in literally 240 responses to this absolute nothing of a topic, and I include myself in this for adding about 4 or 5 other posts within this 240.
-We have Yasir Qadhi virtually morphing into some kind of “classical revisionist” type of modernist, and Im worried more of his influence rather than his physical self
-We have the virtual khawaarij phenomenon of which you have seen the magnitude of
-We have the Secular/modernist problem that is the general atmosphere of the western Muslim communities
-We have the various disbelieving nations purporting their proxy wars on Muslim lands including their ideological attack, of which Bin baz and other notable salafi Imaams clearly highlighted this danger and placed this as one of the uppermost dangers
-We have so much more which would consume too much of my time to mention
and these are all from the negative kalaam based qeela wa qaal issues that happen to be inadvertently much more important than the trivial hischam vs halabi vs hilalee vs whoever the hell vs huwaynee vs bin bozo.
On the bright side of things, there are very few teachers, nevertheless teachers, who are actually teaching actual knowledge that benefits, and we have time to discuss personalities!
مالكم كيف تحكمون
where are our priorities?
asalamu alaikum
That’s a good question, bro, considering you chose to contribute to this supposed “absolute nothing of a topic” (more irony), which has had comments added sparingly since the topic died off about a year or so ago when the bulk of the 200 some odd comments were posted.
As for the topic itself, I know for a fact that touching on it when I first did was of some benefit to some of the visitors to my blog, especially because of some of subsequent the things written in the comments by some pretty decent and good brothers (may Allah reward and bless them). Even if that benefit was small, it was well worth it for me. I’ve also gotten some pretty good feedback from several callers to Islam from the West, brothers who I look up to and have a great deal of respect for, which assures me that this wasn’t a complete waste of my time and energy. If you feel that the topic touched in the post, which subsequently led to much of the discussion that took place in the comments is worthless, that’s fine. You’re entitled to your opinion.
actually no, your cool
its just weird that all of this kalaam is dedicated to people who are not even rabbani ulema which only exposes a form of reverse logic inherent within much of the western thinking of shiyookh personalities.
I understand it had its benefit, forgive my exaggeration
barakallahu feekum for your continuing efforts
asalamu alaikum
Well, that’s the thing, bro. Generally, many of us are ignorant, ignorant of what Salafism is, of what knowledge is. As the age old adage goes, recognize knowledge and you’ll recognize its people. For the most part, people (not only in the West, but really all over) don’t recognize these things and thus end up judging the truth according to the people instead of the other way around.
I don’t doubt that there are many things that should be higher on the priority list, but a lot of the topics touched on and discussed not only in my article, but in the comments posted as well, are things that need to be clarified and explained–and by that I don’t mean the names and personalities involved, but rather the points that were trying to be made by all of this (e.g., double standards, using religious matters as a pretext for personal beefs, etc.).
one slight thing based on your comment on the american ignorance.
If anyone has been studying, how is their ignorance implicitly perpetual. And what I mean by perpetual, I don;t mean the natural occurence of ignorance, i mean that people virtually reset their speedometer of knowledge progress. We indeed find this attribute with the “clear” salafis and it is most apparent when they continue to study something as basic as usoolu-thalaatha for the last 10 years and each time they begin studying it for the umpteenth time, it is as if all previous information was deleted. And the most sad and gross reality is that if one of them read this remark of mine, the only conception that they could gain from this is how “I degrade the knowledge of aqeedah like Safar al-Hawali did”. And the funny part of this is that this particular knowledge (of knowing individuals and what they said) is the only thing that does not get reset to 0 which inadvertently causes them to remember such things from 35 years ago.
Speak for others, I know what salafiyyah is and I have always been demarcating between the concept vs the claimant just as i had to do so for Islam and Muslims.
I always wanted to respond to that quintin dude who did the anatomy of the salafi movement because the parallels he draws up stem from his own philosophically based ideology that I found were warped which inevitably warped his notions and conclusions he was drawing. However I never got around to doing that.
Asalamu alaikum
mashaa Allah, i think the blog posts and comments are getting to the point that they should be placed on a web forum or something so that more people are aware of the content. there are a lot of benefits that have been discussed and even if not simply for the reader to see that there are people of the sunnah, “salafees”, who actually look and discussed these topics with sense & understanding. what you think about starting another forum, something that is knowledge based where actual discussion can take place…minus the foolishness that is found on many forums today?
as-Salam ‘alaikum wa rahmatullah, Tivisiana.
May Allah reward and bless you for your comment and welcome to my blog.
I’ve been part of moderating teams for a couple of discussion forums in the past and a member of many, many others. To be quite frank, I wouldn’t want to start up another forum to add to the list of hundreds of Islamic forums that already exist. Not only is it a lot of work to maintain and moderate, but just to get it started in the first place. This is aside from the fact that many times, despite the pure intentions behind them, they generally tend to deteriorate into big wastes of time, with members joining up to start confrontations and needless debates or to post up other nonsense or regurgitated articles cut and pasted from other websites, forums, or emails that we’ve seen dozens of times already.
Asalamalaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu!
Akhee Rasheed, I read through the blogs and found many beneficial points. Alhamdullilah, more of a summary than anything. Which is good because it brings into light many things that some Salafis might have in mind. For example, I began my introduction into the deen through the books and materials I bought from Troid, however, I never fully associated myself with the organization. I supported them through buying their books, but also to gain my own knowledge through some of the good books they had. Alhamdullilah! I found a few good brothers who boosted my emaan through their good actions and good speech. In fact, these brothers may be found occasionally at Troid, however they are far from the understanding of AK47(Abu Khadeejah).
During this process, me and my brother became very harsh on my own family, may Allah(swt) protect us all from that when not necessary. We became the Sunnah police and took everyone else out of the fold of Sunnah, alhamdullilah we didn’t kick anyone out of the deen since most of the family back home is blindly following Bidah’s and so forth! Anyhow, during this period, the few good brothers that I mentioned above whom I constantly referred to when it came to personalities mentioning fulan and fulan and what they thought of them and what SP/Troid says about them, they began to seem frustrated and told me its all non-sense. Told me to ignore and stay away from that fitnah and just focus on your studies, books, learn the Arabic language and memorize the Qur’an, etc. After that day, me and my brother began to think since we hadn’t seen that side from Troid, but alhamdullilah Allah(swt) protected us for the long run.
Anyways, long story short, I found that all this discussion of this person said this and that, lead to nowhere. In fact, it’s very attractive, almost like gossip and perhaps it may be as such, to speak and be involved in drama. But at the end of the day, we don’t find any gain in the imaan. We may think refuting is making us feel good but our intentions are not for the sake of Allah(swt). I can testify that if you look to study a topic for the sake of a discussion, you can read hundreds of pages and many books, but if you want to study the topic for the sake of Allah(swt), you won’t even feel any motivation to read a single page. This is how important niyyah is before any act of worship, if you want your actions to count. We ask Allah(swt) to clarify and purify our intentions strictly for Him!
In the end, after marriage I become busy with family and work and little to no time for discussions/disputes. This led me to look at things from a different perspective and alhamdullilah, when I look back into the discussions that are going on today, it reminds of me of how much time and effort is wasted when it can benefit yourself and those around you. Although I do feel a sense of urge to know about what’s going on, time does not befit me to do so. Only then, I realize that alhamdullilah it’s better to stay away from it than to get involved in it and cause bitterness in your tongue against fulan and fulan. Allah(swt) will guide whom he wills! Anyhow, this blog was good and may Allah(swt) reward you for your efforts in publishing such posts. We also ask Allah(swt) to guide people towards good action after learning the deen. I was influenced by action above anything else. I know they say that if Speech is silver than silence is gold, but then action is diamond to all that! We ask Allah(swt) to keep us firm on the Sunnah and the understanding of the Sahabas and protect us from all evil!
Wasalamalaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu!!!
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah, Saad.
May Allah reward and bless you for your story. I pray that Allah grants you success in your endeavours and increases you in good. Welcome to my blog, bro.
Asalamualaykum Warahmatullahi Wabarakatu, JazakAllahu Khayran, this was a highly beneficial read for me hehehe
Wa ‘alaikum as-salam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, Samer.
May Allah reward and bless you as well. I’m glad you found benefit from the article; and the praise is Allah’s.
As-Salaamu ‘Alaykum waRahmatuAllah!
Bro, unfortunately I just recently found out about your blog — though I have visited once or twice before — but I just wanted to extend my deepest empathy for you and what you’re going though. I myself felt something very similar not too long ago and had to reevaluate things and focus on strengthening my relationship with Allah.
Unfortunately prior to doing so I resorted to my youthfulness and start poking at there flaws — I’m the young “student” with my Arabic lexicon Moosaa was referring to in his weak defense of Sh. Muhammad bin Haadi — which doesn’t aid the situation at all. Im currently a student at Umm al-Qura, and though u might not be the strongest of them, I’ll do whatever I can to assist you iA; even if you’d just like to talk.
Take care bro!
Wa ‘alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, brother.
Welcome to my blog and thank you for the offer to help out with things; jazak Allah kull khair.
I am a bit confused about this bit, though:
I’m not quite sure what you’re referring to with respect to poking at their flaws and Moosaa Richardson’s mention of you. Were these things recent?
Edit: I ask because the only time I recall Richardson taking shots at someone’s level of Arabic was back during the issue regarding suicide when he attacked Dr. Bilal Philips for what he wrote concerning it in his Islamic Studies series.
Oh. My. Days. I just found what Richardson said about Muhammad Hadi’s statement. I also listened to the recording of Muhammad Hadi’s statement about visiting Rabi al-Madkhali. To Allah we belong and to Him we return, LOL. Bro, calling it weak is a gross understatement. That was one of the most feeble and utterly pathetic things I’ve seen from him–and that’s saying a hell of a lot as he’s got a ton of things he’s said and done to compete. The question he asked Muhammad bin Hadi was pathetic. The response from Muhammad Hadi was a joke. What an embarrassment.
May Allah aid us all!
Assalaamualikum Rasheed
I’ve known about you for almost 10 years; although we’ve never met. Brothers from QSS and Masjid Khalid bin Walid who made hijrah to the UAE spoke fondly about you and I started reading your blog in 2009.
My teacher, Shiekh Bilal Philips may have also mentioned you, I can’t recall with certainty though.
When I read your comments, I hear myself speaking. Akhi, I could have written those words. My heart is filled with sadness, yet there is consolation as well that a good brother like you has had the same thoughts/experiences.
The only difference between you and I is that Alhumdulillah, you stuck to the Sunnah and practicing the Seen despite these tribulations but I was broken. Inna lillahi wa inna ilahi rajeoon.
I shaved off my beard and stopped attending the salafi masjids and would drive to far-away masjids to offer Salah so that I could avoid meeting anyone I knew. I started listening to music, something that I hardly did even before I started practicing Islam.
My wife divorced me. I had already alienated my family during my Salafi days because they were Ahlul Bidah.
I had nothing. Nothing except a broken-heart and a deep sense of shame at what I’d become.
Wallahi, wallahi, wallahi, I don’t care what anyone thinks due to my appearance, I love Allah and His Messenger and I love the Salaf As Salih and I love Salafiyyah and I am a Salafi.
I feel bitterness and anger and resentment at the “Shyookh” who I feel let me down. No leadership, no wisdom, just political manoeuvres, petty accusations. They made me waste so much energy hating my brother and sisters- I hated the Tablighis, the Ikhwanis, the Surooris, the Everybodys- all this whilst I would wonder why my heart was always restless and on edge.
Then these “Imams of Jarh wa Tadeel” sent out contradictory and confusing messages like, “You must be patient with your brother’s mistakes, no, I don’t make tabdee’ of Safar and Salman, go to the hospital boy and get yourself treated..”
The above are all actual quotes from the Flag Bearer of Jarh wa Ta’deel, by the way. You Tube is your friend.
But, just like the Sufis suppress dissent and critical thinking, so too do these Flag Bearers of Jarh was Ta’deel bully you into their cult by threatening you with the hadith, “the flesh of the scholars is poison….”
MashaAllah!
And then we wonder why people leave Salafiyyah and Islam. Inna lillahi was inna ilahi rajeoon.
What we find today in Saudia in terms of khawarij is a logical and natural result of the close-minded and extreme attitudes of the Shuyookh in those lands. How is what the Flag Bearer says any different from the attitude of the Khawaarij?
Like the Sufis and Deobandis/Hanafis, the Salafis too have been cowered into not speaking out against the injustices and frankly ridiculous and laughable attitudes of the Mashaykh.
Really, when you break free from the cult you will see how cringe-worthy some of the statements of these scholars is.
If Salafis are sick and tired of all the games and bickering and ta’assub, why do we blame the common people among the Muslims when they want to flee from Islam? Why do we blame the common people who just want a happy life as simple Muslims from looking up to the perceived freedoms of western societies?
Look at the Dawah of Sheikh Al Albani- he was willing to accommodate anyone who followed the Dawah of Imam Abdul Wahab into Salafiyyah.
He even made excuses for some of the heads of the Ikhwan saying that they were Salafi in Aqeedah.
The reality is, that in the eyes of these Ghulat At Tajreeh, Sheikh Al Albani was a miskeen, someone with tamyee. But they dare not say it openly because he was Al Albani.
Just like in reality to takfeeris like Abu Qatadah All Falisteeni and Abu Muhammed Al Maqdisi, Sheikh Al Albaani, Allah yarhum, was a Murji’, kaafir but they dare not say it openly.
Salafiyyah is the Islam brought by Abul Qasim sallahu alahi wassallam. Anybody who follows this Islam to the exclusion of anything else, any other path, is Salafi.
Yes, even if the Flag Bearer hates it.
Wassalaamualikum
Wa ‘alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah, Al Mukri.
I’m saddened to read about your hardships and trials; I ask Allah to give you strength and patience in fighting your demons and vices. You’re not alone, however. I know many who’ve slipped in varying degrees with respect to religiosity, especially from where many of us used to be only a few years ago, myself included.
I’ve taken a significant step back from the da’wah scene. Partially due to just being tired of all the b.s., partially due to a move in residence (I now live in downtown Toronto, not close to any particular mosque, compared to only a few years ago when I lived within walking distance to two Islamic centres–QSSC being one of them).
It’s a real shame what’s befallen Muslims. Want of power and prestige, losing sight of the bigger picture and a miriad of other things, have all wreaked havoc on the Islamic world, not just Salafism. Many of us are jaded, upset with our leadership (or better, the lack of). Those who were supposed to be our role models and our guides have, like you said, let us down–and in a big way.
To Allah is the praise, however, as is always the case, with trials and tribulations, comes clarity. I’ve noticed more and more that attitudes among many are changing for the better. More tolerance towards differences, a clearer view of the bigger picture and a shift towards working towards unity and understanding–knowing what is worthy of debate and what can be left aside for another day.
I pray that Allah allows us to sort out this mess we find ourselves in and guides us to that which pleases Him, giving us strength and patience through every step.
Aameen to all your Duas, Rasheed.
JazaakAllah khair for your beautiful words, I’ve felt their impact deeply and
InshaAllah my Emaan will rise again.
In the words of Maya Angelou,
“…and still like dust, I’ll rise.”
I have no problem with the salafis intention I just have a problem with there slogans and the slandering they are doing to the ummah.for example they say”we follow that which do not err”before I start lets not get it confuse I take from the salafi salaf but not modern day salafiyyah its a big difference but to say that I follow that which do not err when referring to the companions is wrong for even the companions were wrong about certain issues and rulings concerning hadith and sunnah.for a quick example when ruqayah died and the companions cried and I believe it was Ali that shouted stop crying and the messenger corrected him in that matter so a quick example that even they were wrong about some things.so the only person you can safely say you follow that which do not err is the messenger of Allah.not salafi salih and when they you the saying that they are the saved sect is just blasphemy that knowledge is only with Allah for even the messenger did not know his own fate.they have many more slogans or statements that they make that is just questionable and in conflict with Qur’an and Sunnah along side that the slandering they do to other jammats and sheikhs is just getting out of hand
السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
Very interesting read. BaarakAllahu feek.
Wondering where you are today, in regards to your Salafiyyah?
May Allah ‘Azza wa Jal guide us both to all that pleases Him most Aameen ya Rabb
Wa ‘alaikum assalam wa rahmatullah wa barakatuh, sister. Jazak illah khairan kathiran for the comment and question, wa fiki barak Allah. I hope you found the article as beneficial as you found it interesting.
Amin, amin. amin.
In regards to my salafiyyah, I’m still very much salafi, although my general outlook on practically everything has become … easy going, or liberal, for lack of better terms. In terms of religiosity, I’ve gone through a lot of changes since I’ve stopped writing to this blog. I’m not as “religious” as I once was. My focus in life been more focused on work and family than it has been towards religious study and practice, wallah al-Musta’an.
Again, jazak illah khairan for dropping by my blog and taking the time to read my writings. It always surprises me that people visit this blog and read the articles I’ve written. I pray Allah allows you make the most of the opportunities for acts of worship He affords you during this blessed month and to reap the benefits and rewards for your fasting and prayers. Ramadan mubarak, sister.
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